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Ravenwolf
07-10-2011, 01:10 AM
Going to start regearing my fa and wanted some tips on gear, going the right path or no? I'll be mostly using it for war/pvp/occasional dungeoning which I'll just swap some vamp accessories for.
Was thinking I'd do mix of TG and Osm, benefits to mixing it? Or should I stick with full osm/full tg? I'm thinking this just depends on how much money I'm willing to spend on it, but it never hurts to ask.

7% 2 slot Osm suit/TG suit
7% Osm boots/TG boots
7% Osm gloves/TG gloves
Helm I wasn't sure on, waiting to see if I can find a pc 2 slot TG or just going with a pc osm for now.

Been reading other threads, and it seems people are saying 2 slot forcy over 7% forcy. Correct or no? Or should I do combination?

Rings, ros9's, cr1's, or cr2's? Back when I used to play fa people would always tell me cr1/2 over ros9.

And then just an other tips you have :D Thanks guys :)

jone
07-10-2011, 01:16 AM
I'd recommend full osm as TG amp is kinda expensive.
And if you're gonna go 2slot osm suit, you may as well go 2slot battleboot too.
If you need one, I'm selling it.
http://forum.cabal.com/showthread.php?21776-S-gt-Battle-gear-Forcy-Xtal-20-CD

PC DMG osm helm is fine, but if you are really willing to spend, get a 7/40 osm.

From what I've heard, 2x20% CD > 2x7% amp > mix

CR+2 > RoS+9 > CR+1

Ravenwolf
07-10-2011, 01:36 AM
2 slot osm suit is a lot cheaper then 2 slot osm boots, but if I can get hte money before you sell them I'd definitely be interested in them.

Thanks :)

XFearMyBladeX
07-10-2011, 01:44 AM
o.o just stay osm and save money for forcy or sig.using tera is a waste,not a big diff like u wont die 24/7 if u dont use tera gear so just +10 ur osm or just +9 and deal with it and save for minimum sig or forcy.and still u need alz for the runes u need so idk... ur choice o.o

Drew
07-10-2011, 02:18 AM
From what I've heard, 2x20% CD > 2x7% amp > mix



lol, to the op, don't believe everything they claim; they never tested both. i believe u said u wanted war and dungeoning as well? so i gather u like using ur guns? take a hint...

i din't bother putting my inputs to the other thread cuz there's no getting to these people's heads...

jone
07-10-2011, 02:33 AM
lol, to the op, don't believe everything they claim; they never tested both. i believe u said u wanted war and dungeoning as well? so i gather u like using ur guns? take a hint...

i din't bother putting my inputs to the other thread cuz there's no getting to these people's heads...

1. You should never believe everything you hear.

And hey, do you remember this:





Mix 40cd Fullamp
PVE
GD 6 5 7
CS 4 8 6
--- --- ---
* 10 13 13

PVP
GD 6 5 7
CS 5 8 5
--- --- ---
* 11 13 12



Yea. That's where my formula came from.

BamOwnage
07-10-2011, 03:04 AM
Well think about it, if you are using your guns, you would like the consistancy=amp. So I prefer AMP orbs for FA

Ravenwolf
07-10-2011, 03:13 AM
That's what I heard about amp weps as well which is why I was like eh? when I heard fa's want 20 dmg forcy now. I don't have an issue with not critting on my fa either so I can see how getting 20 dmg forcy would be better.

@BamOwnage you said you preferred amp orbs for fa, but your amp is only 40 on your sig, so I"m assuming you have yet to get your fc amp weps?

Ravenwolf
07-10-2011, 03:28 AM
Another question, for orbs, where would topaz 7 amp 20 cdi fall?

BamOwnage
07-10-2011, 09:12 PM
That's what I heard about amp weps as well which is why I was like eh? when I heard fa's want 20 dmg forcy now. I don't have an issue with not critting on my fa either so I can see how getting 20 dmg forcy would be better.

@BamOwnage you said you preferred amp orbs for fa, but your amp is only 40 on your sig, so I"m assuming you have yet to get your fc amp weps?

Too expensive, I would've liked to buy two

Ravenwolf
07-11-2011, 09:30 AM
Ahh mmk. Still wondering where would a topaz 7 amp 20 cdi fall in this if it was a high enough plus?

SilvusX
07-11-2011, 11:37 AM
it'll work fine for stand up pvp or pve.. but remember bm2 needs high base attack and amp, when I turned off/on mana condense in PVE, i noticed my gun nearly lost 60-80 crit damage (29 m atk), so it's a pretty big deal

Snakeyes
07-11-2011, 11:43 AM
topaz 7 amp 20 damag drops in ic1

EzSeleneEz
07-11-2011, 05:30 PM
I still dont know where some of these guys are getting their dmg calculations... on my fa, m amp orb > 2 slot forcy even on crits if i was in aos on anything quadra or higher...

chainlock
07-11-2011, 06:57 PM
I still dont know where some of these guys are getting their dmg calculations... on my fa, m amp orb > 2 slot forcy even on crits if i was in aos on anything quadra or higher...

Amp slaughters 20% with aos on, and on higher defense targets it wins too.

20% just crits a little more in pvp usually.

Ravenwolf
07-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Okay so what I'm gathering from this thread, ideally to regear my fa I want pc osm helm, osm amp boots/gloves, pc osm suit, 2 forcy m.amp orbs, merg/rol1/2 cr2's correct? I don't have the event rol2, I regret not getting it :/

chainlock
07-11-2011, 08:45 PM
Ahh mmk. Still wondering where would a topaz 7 amp 20 cdi fall in this if it was a high enough plus?

7/20 topaz orbs/crystals at the same + as forci 7 amp or 20% the topaz is actually superior.


Okay so what I'm gathering from this thread, ideally to regear my fa I want pc osm helm, osm amp boots/gloves, pc osm suit, 2 forcy m.amp orbs, merg/rol1/2 cr2's correct? I don't have the event rol2, I regret not getting it :/

If you can, just get any amp to get you by. FA forcium is extremely cheap compared to other classes, if you don't want forcium go for character binding sig. CR1/2 will crit harder than ros9/10, but some people like the extra defense. As for the helmet 7amp/20 cd is FAR superior in bm2, and almost = in combo to a 36%.

stealth305
07-11-2011, 08:53 PM
7/20 topaz orbs/crystals at the same + as forci 7 amp or 20% the topaz is actually superior.



If you can, just get any amp to get you by. FA forcium is extremely cheap compared to other classes, if you don't want forcium go for character binding sig. CR1/2 will crit harder than ros9/10, but some people like the extra defense. As for the helmet 7amp/20 cd is FAR superior in bm2, and almost = in combo to a 36%.

i agree i just bought my topaz crystal 7/20 and i waz critting 200-300's on this 160 WA in bm. pretty nice stuff^^ not bad for a lvl 139

Slowpoke
07-12-2011, 04:21 AM
Another question, for orbs, where would topaz 7 amp 20 cdi fall?

7amp 20dmg crystal with a forci orb wwould be really good as long as the topaz would a high plus like 11 or more


im a amp FA, i like the idea of alot of amp and i want more :< but i've never used crit dmg weapons so i have no idea which is better...
cr2's are def nice, but i really did like that base matk from ros9s XD i need to break 1.1k matk D:


<- worse fa ever :<

MamaMiaYoe
07-12-2011, 04:29 AM
Gasp!

Slowpoke
07-12-2011, 04:30 AM
hi miavii

Ravenwolf
07-12-2011, 06:25 PM
Alright sweet thanks so much guys :) so what I'm understanding is weapons wise I want as much amp as I can get, 7/20 topaz orb with a 7% forcy m.amp being a decent combination if I can get one. rings, Cr2's are better but the def/m.att from ros9/10 will help for dungeons/pve and breaking 1k m.att. I'm still not sure about the 7/20 helm because 99% of the fa's I know use 36 dmg helms with amp weps and I don't want my cdi to be too low.

BamOwnage
07-12-2011, 06:41 PM
You could go for a 7/40 helm (rate/cdi). But yeah you use 36 helms

chainlock
07-12-2011, 08:13 PM
Alright sweet thanks so much guys :) so what I'm understanding is weapons wise I want as much amp as I can get, 7/20 topaz orb with a 7% forcy m.amp being a decent combination if I can get one. rings, Cr2's are better but the def/m.att from ros9/10 will help for dungeons/pve and breaking 1k m.att. I'm still not sure about the 7/20 helm because 99% of the fa's I know use 36 dmg helms with amp weps and I don't want my cdi to be too low.

The reason 99% of them use 36 damage is because 7/20 wasn't available until recently.

Breaking 1k m.atk isn't like a point where you'll notice a big damage increase, it's just something people like to see.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 04:32 AM
I'm still not sure about the 7/20 helm because 99% of the fa's I know use 36 dmg helms with amp weps and I don't want my cdi to be too low.
Never go 7/20 helm. >.<

chainlock
07-13-2011, 11:53 AM
Never go 7/20 helm. >.<

Bad advice. Do some testing.

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 12:44 PM
Yeah but if you're using amp weapons you don't want to cut out cdi completely, getting a 36 or a 7/40 helm rather then a 7/20 will give you at least 16 more cdi, that you're losing if you're going 2 7% forcy amp weapons, which is what I'm hearing to do, I was talking to a fa friend in game earlier and he was telling me to go one amp and 1 20 cdi forcy, so I may have to do some testing of my own and figure out what's the best combination for me.

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 01:12 PM
Bad advice. Do some testing.

amp damage really varies because of defense. I've done tested on 1100 m atk, 100 cd 54 amp VS 1100 m atk 110 cd and 47 amp, against 750-800 def target and it was actually very equal. Amp starts to shine beating 10% cdi, when target is at 900 def (which is fairly common) but does less average damage than 20% dmg forcium orb (which would be 1100 m atk, 120 cd, and 47 amp)

Awhile back someone says 7 amp is about =15 cdi, which I agree with, it goes around there with 900-1k defense.

in this case, 15+20 is about 35% dmg which is equal, but Miavii is right, because most of those type of helm are binding.. and cannot be sold, which I think is waste of money. on the other hand, a +9 battle helm 36% dmg is 200-250m?

Anyhow the whole point is that amp and cd are so situational, I do have friends using 14% amp helm or having amp orb switched while in bm2, but this isn't something i'll do.

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 01:21 PM
So using 36 helm, and either a 2 slot forcy orb/1 m.amp or 36 helm 2 m.amp would be close but average dmg, using the 1 2 slot and 1 amp would be better for a bit higher dmg? And then 2-3 cr2's?

At the moment my fa is in a bunch of crap gear I mostly got off of friends for cheap, and my stats are

887 m.att
670 def
50 cri
107 dmg
39 amp

Level 138, I know my gear needs a lot of improvement, not even using a pc helm/boots/gloves at the moment. Once it's geared and leveled more I'm hoping for

1000+ m.att
750 def
50 cri
120 cdi
55 amp

As a guideline, this sound about right? I won't be able to afford forcy amp so I know that my def will be lower but m.att a bit higher because I don't need to stat for forcy. Anything to add/fix/change about my guideline goal stats?

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 01:42 PM
I'm gonna tell you straight up, in most situations, 20% dmg orb is stronger than 7% amp orb. I'm sure this is also the reason why 2 slot orb has always been more expensive than 7 amp orb. (not just because of quantity). Sometimes during 2009, I've seen 2 slot forcium orbs PLAIN for 2-3 billions, while amp orbs are 600-700m PLAIN. To this date, 2 slot is still more expensive than amp orb.

Most people say that bm2 w/ aos, 7 amp is stronger than 20 cdi. But with my test at 1.1k m atk with aos turned on against an opponent at 900 defense, their average damage was actually fairly equal. I'm sure 7 amp would beat 20 dmg when defense is higher than that, but even then, it'd be few measly damage.

Since you are lvl 138, most people around your lvl dont even have over 750-800 defense, and if you fighting against wi or fa, they'd have even lower. Crit will most definitely out damage amp in this situation.

as for orb choices, 20% dmg hybrid or duo 20 dmg, or duo amp, just get whatever you feel like getting. I just personally prefer crit because crit is what wins PVP. you can't just say oh my terra lance non crit is 40 damage more than yours! I'll be more likely to win!!@! Stand up pvp isn't consistent, but something like War, where you need to hit constant, then average damage builds up (but for amp to deal higher average damage than 20%, opponent needs VERY high defense.)

in a way, this sort of applies for PVE. 20% dmg orb owns all non boss or lower dungeons, where amp definitely deals higher average damage to DERK and Pluma.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 02:08 PM
Yeah but if you're using amp weapons you don't want to cut out cdi completely, getting a 36 or a 7/40 helm rather then a 7/20 will give you at least 16 more cdi, that you're losing if you're going 2 7% forcy amp weapons, which is what I'm hearing to do, I was talking to a fa friend in game earlier and he was telling me to go one amp and 1 20 cdi forcy, so I may have to do some testing of my own and figure out what's the best combination for me.

You aren't cutting it out, 7amp/20cd topaz x2 or 7/20 topaz + forci amp/cd gives you more than enough. In pvp 7amp/20cd helm vs 36 damage crit shot hits harder with the 7/20 while other skills do 10-40 more per crit with the 36 and less on non crits. In bm2 the 7/20 helm wins every time.

Don't worry so much about reaching a certain stat point of any kind. Just keep leveling and get the gear you can for now.

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 02:33 PM
Wasn't planning on farming t3 or t4 war for that matter, I was able to get a wizzy from 1-170 in 3 months and I'm hoping to get this character up to 170 soon, she's reached 140, almost 141 since the last time I posted, this is without level booster, just regular platinum, I have a few days till it runs out :/ Sorry went off on a tangent there but, the dmg i'd be doing to people around my level right now doesnt really matter in my opinion because I wont be at this level for very long. After reading everything you've guys have said and talking to a few others, I think I'll be going with a 36 helm, 7% m.amp forcy, and 20 dmg forcy, 2/3 cr2's for when in aura, and then the rest is self explanatory by this point. I'll check it on the dmg calculator as well before actually purchasing anything, but thanks for all of your input, helped a lot :)

chainlock
07-13-2011, 03:04 PM
Why would you go with a 7 amp and 20% forci when 7/20 topaz out does both of them in bm2 and combo?

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 03:38 PM
Bad advice. Do some testing.
Ive been an FA more than you since 2008. Ive been thanked so far with the advice that I have given and I have helped so many FA's, Han included, to be succesful. Do me a favor, stay away from the FA threads if youre here to mislead people.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 03:42 PM
Ive been an FA more than you since 2008. Ive been thanked so far with the advice that I have given and I have helped so many FA's, Han included, to be succesful. Do me a favor, stay away from the FA threads if youre here to mislead people.

Show me where I mislead anyone?

Being a FA for a longer than me means nothing when it comes to which gear is more effective.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 03:43 PM
40/7 or 34/7 are the only "ideal" perfect helms for FA. Lets stick with the ideal so everyone can share a piece of the pie.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 03:44 PM
Show me where I mislead anyone?

Being a FA for a longer than me means nothing when it comes to which gear is more effective.

Yeah thing is what can we expect from a OSM armor build FA like you. I think thats enough reason to doubt your advices.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Yeah thing is what can we expect from a OSM armor build FA like you. I think thats enough reason to doubt your advices.

Was an old fun build quite a while ago. So you can't show anywhere I'm wrong in this tho?

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 03:47 PM
Miavii can I get your opinion on the orbs? I'm not looking to be the "best" fa on venus or in my tier or whatever, I just want to be able to do the most damage that I can without spending a ton on this fa. Between the three listed, 7/20 topaz, 20 dmg forcy, and 7% forcy m.amp what combination would you recommend? Or if there's a different orb that hasn't been listed yet on this thread.

Two reasons I was hesitant to go with the 7/20 ORB. 1. It's char bound, if I ever decide to quit my fa again, I can't resell it. 2. Base damage. I've been hearing 1k+ m.att or you're crap, I don't have any safeguards, and I'm extremely unlucky in plussing, unless I can find one already plussed, the highest it will be is +9 most likely, Can I break 1k m.att with a +9 topaz and a +10 forcy? The forcy I'm planning on buying already +10.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 03:49 PM
Amp helm will only benefit the only amped based skill crit shot. When it comes to bm1 in nation war that amp based is gone and that crit is rendered useless. Bm1 needs more crit not amp.

bm1 crit good for tanking and 1 on 1.
2775

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 03:53 PM
So then 2 20 dmg forcy orbs, or hybrid? Because I do know Fa's need amp for their bm2 which I do plan on using because I'll be doing mostly dungeons with my fa, with the occasional war, when I'm not warring on my wiz.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 04:00 PM
Miavii can I get your opinion on the orbs? I'm not looking to be the "best" fa on venus or in my tier or whatever, I just want to be able to do the most damage that I can without spending a ton on this fa. Between the three listed, 7/20 topaz, 20 dmg forcy, and 7% forcy m.amp what combination would you recommend? Or if there's a different orb that hasn't been listed yet on this thread.

Two reasons I was hesitant to go with the 7/20 ORB. 1. It's char bound, if I ever decide to quit my fa again, I can't resell it. 2. Base damage. I've been hearing 1k+ m.att or you're crap, I don't have any safeguards, and I'm extremely unlucky in plussing, unless I can find one already plussed, the highest it will be is +9 most likely, Can I break 1k m.att with a +9 topaz and a +10 forcy? The forcy I'm planning on buying already +10.


Its not 1k magic attack, it used to be the goal stat 2 years ago when everyones gear were just osm. People of different classes these days are forcium/amped. 1k magic attack will just tickle most of them. You need to aim higher to 1060+ or better 1100... That would be that goal point for better crit damage and decent base dmg. Same with the new map and dungeon.

the 7/20 topaz will only be good at +15. I'd go 2 slot forcium or 7% amp forcium +10 up. Good for both pvp and pve

chainlock
07-13-2011, 04:04 PM
So then 2 20 dmg forcy orbs, or hybrid? Because I do know Fa's need amp for their bm2 which I do plan on using because I'll be doing mostly dungeons with my fa, with the occasional war, when I'm not warring on my wiz.

Dungeon build is all about maximizing bm2 damage, which means 7amp/20cd helm and weapons. In war you switch to a leg for bm1/aura and you will still have good weapons for bm2 on guardians. I'm assuming you can't afford a 7rate/34 or 7rate/40 helm right now since you're worried about char binding weapons and resale value. Like I said before on helms tho, 7/20 will be EXTREMELY bette for bm2, while 36% will crit a very small amount more than 7amp/20 in combo/pvp.

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 04:05 PM
Its not 1k magic attack, it used to be the goal stat 2 years ago when everyones gear were just osm. People of different classes these days are forcium/amped. 1k magic attack will just tickle most of them. You need to aim higher to 1060+ or better 1100... That would be that goal point for better crit damage and decent base dmg. Same with the new map and dungeon.

the 7/20 topaz will only be good at +15. I'd go 2 slot forcium or 7% amp forcium +10 up. Good for both pvp and pve

Okay, so any combination of 2 slot forcy 7 amp forcy both +10 or higher would be decent orbs, thanks :) I'll start looking around and seeing what I can find.

Again, thanks so much for your help everyone :) Can't wait to get back to playing fa.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 04:29 PM
Our confusing friend over there seems to push his opinions further as effective and validated ><
You dont need to go all dungeon build or your experience as an FA will be just on dungeons. We would want to enjoy both pvp and pve aspects for an FA in this game.

So yes, You have to do your best to gather gears that wlll increase your magic attack, I strongly recommend +11 forcium orbs. While amp may boost a certain skill and bm2 normal damage, crit on the other hand deals superior damage on the rest of the skills - shadow shot, lances/cannons and finishers. There has to be a balance, and in my own opinion, we should leave the extra magic amp stats for the weapons instead of the helm.

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 04:37 PM
Our confusing friend over there seems to push his opinions further as effective and validated ><
You dont need to go all dungeon build or your experience as an FA will be just on dungeons. We would want to enjoy both pvp and pve aspects for an FA in this game.

So yes, You have to do your best to gather gears that wlll increase your magic attack, I strongly recommend +11 forcium orbs. While amp may boost a certain skill and bm2 normal damage, crit on the other hand deals superior damage on the rest of the skills - shadow shot, lances/cannons and finishers. There has to be a balance, and in my own opinion, we should leave the extra magic amp stats for the weapons instead of the helm.

Alright, I think I'm understanding, I was hoping for a yes, or no lol. 1 forcium m.amp orb +11, 1 forcium 20 cdi orb +11 good balance? amp to help the normal bm2 skill and crit shot, 20 cdi to help the lances/cannons/finishers. Correct?

chainlock
07-13-2011, 04:40 PM
Our confusing friend over there seems to push his opinions further as effective and validated ><
You dont need to go all dungeon build or your experience as an FA will be just on dungeons. We would want to enjoy both pvp and pve aspects for an FA in this game.

So yes, You have to do your best to gather gears that wlll increase your magic attack, I strongly recommend +11 forcium orbs. While amp may boost a certain skill and bm2 normal damage, crit on the other hand deals superior damage on the rest of the skills - shadow shot, lances/cannons and finishers. There has to be a balance, and in my own opinion, we should leave the extra magic amp stats for the weapons instead of the helm.


I'm not looking to be the "best" fa on venus or in my tier or whatever, I just want to be able to do the most damage that I can without spending a ton on this fa. Between the three listed, 7/20 topaz, 20 dmg forcy, and 7% forcy m.amp what combination would you recommend?

unless I can find one already plussed, the highest it will be is +9 most likely, Can I break 1k m.att with a +9 topaz and a +10 forcy? The forcy I'm planning on buying already +10.

Key points that you should consider.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 04:41 PM
Alright, I think I'm understanding, I was hoping for a yes, or no lol. 1 forcium m.amp orb +11, 1 forcium 20 cdi orb +11 good balance? amp to help the normal bm2 skill and crit shot, 20 cdi to help the lances/cannons/finishers. Correct?

k..Yes. lol

chainlock
07-13-2011, 04:41 PM
Actual in game testing > opinions.

I'll see if I can blow these up more. Weapons were +9 for all builds, 2x bos 6s, 2x cr+2s(3 for bm2/aos). Topaz build has 7amp/20 dmg helm, forci build has 36%
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/fatopazorbs.png

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/forcifamixbuild.png

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 04:43 PM
@Miavii Lol thanks so much for your help :)

@Chainlock While I don't want to be the best, I definitely don't want to be the first, I'll be gearing as close to this as I can, while the forcy orbs I get may not be able to be +11 they'll be a highest plus as I can get them, and will be the same slots as I've chosen based on what I've read/learned on this thread. Thank you for your input too.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 04:50 PM
^
np

stealth305
07-13-2011, 05:03 PM
Actual in game testing > opinions.

I'll see if I can blow these up more. Weapons were +9 for all builds, 2x bos 6s, 2x cr+2s(3 for bm2/aos). Topaz build has 7amp/20 dmg helm, forci build has 36%
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/fatopazorbs.png

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/forcifamixbuild.png


no response to this miavii? ....lol shows how much you know^^ to bad the person whos asking for help cant see these facts and to busy looking at ur sig^^

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 05:06 PM
Actual in game testing > opinions.

I'll see if I can blow these up more. Weapons were +9 for all builds, 2x bos 6s, 2x cr+2s(3 for bm2/aos). Topaz build has 7amp/20 dmg helm, forci build has 36%
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/fatopazorbs.png

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/forcifamixbuild.png

ermmm lvl 170 class rank 19? You sure thats accurate? come log ingame and lets settle it there. :)

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 05:07 PM
no response to this miavii? ....lol shows how much you know^^ to bad the person whos asking for help cant see these facts and to busy looking at ur sig^^

The person knows its Miavii thats why. Ofcourse Miavii>chainlock, you want a video?

chainlock
07-13-2011, 05:08 PM
ermmm lvl 170 class rank 19? You sure thats accurate? come log ingame and lets settle it there. :)

Meh 1 wrong thing that is in both parts so it still gave the same bonus to each part.

Either way ends up it was you misleading people.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 05:14 PM
Meh 1 wrong thing that is in both parts so it still gave the same bonus to each part.

Either way ends up it was you misleading people.

Says the osm armor build FA. Like I said, if u want to prove what your trying to convince us, log in game and lets do it there.
I dont trust caclulators. I want to see it in actual - ingame.
Problem is you dont even play FA, and yet you try to act like you know this class too well. Thats what annoys me.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 05:18 PM
Says the osm armor build FA. Like I said, if u want to prove what your trying to convince us, log in game and lets do it there.
I dont trust caclulators. I want to see it in actual - ingame.
Problem is you dont even play FA, and yet you try to act like you know this class too well. Thats what annoys me.

I don't play FA? Strange, thought I did.

You think I just knew that stuff was better out of no where?

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 05:19 PM
@Chainlock thanks for posting those calculations but I'd rather either see it in game or do the calculations myself, and even doing them myself I dont trust them fully.

Also, I'm not listening to Miavii because im "too busy staring at their sig" I'm listening to them because I've read previous guides that I"ve found helpful.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 05:24 PM
@Chainlock thanks for posting those calculations but I'd rather either see it in game or do the calculations myself, and even doing them myself I dont trust them fully.

Also, I'm not listening to Miavii because im "too busy staring at their sig" I'm listening to them because I've read previous guides that I"ve found helpful.

Go test it or do the calcs then before you waste a bunch of money on opinions, I've already tested it.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 05:46 PM
I don't play FA? Strange, thought I did.

You think I just knew that stuff was better out of no where?

Stop basing your inputs out of calculators. You get a 7/20 helm w/o thinking if it would benefit you in the long run. Your facts are against whats ideal.

If a 20/7 helm > a 36% dmg I'd be so relieved, then explain why a 36% dmge forcium orb of fatal would cost more than 20/7amp forcium orb of outragous? I hope its am istake so I can buy it plz. xD Thats just a joke tho.

But like I said, 7% Amp will only benefit crit shot in combo. 36% Crit dmge > 7% amp in other skills and bm1.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 05:49 PM
Stop basing your inputs out of calculators. You get a 7/20 helm w/o thinking if it would benefit you in the long run. Your facts are against whats ideal.

If a 20/7 helm > a 36% dmg I'd be so relieved, then explain why a 36% dmge forcium orb of fatal would cost more than 20/7amp forcium orb of outragous? I hope its am istake so I can buy it plz. xD Thats just a joke tho.

But like I said, 7% Amp will only benefit crit shot in combo. 36% Crit dmge > 7% amp in other skills and bm1.

Easy enough, 7/20 is almost the same pvp/combo damage and WAY more damage in bm2 for FA. 36% is better for other classes so it costs more.

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 05:51 PM
not way more, idk what calculator you've been using but

www.cabalc.com

very easy calculator to use from.

stealth305
07-13-2011, 05:56 PM
@Chainlock thanks for posting those calculations but I'd rather either see it in game or do the calculations myself, and even doing them myself I dont trust them fully.

Also, I'm not listening to Miavii because im "too busy staring at their sig" I'm listening to them because I've read previous guides that I"ve found helpful.


Previous guide dnt have 7/20 topaz orbs bc they just came out... >.>

and calculations is what determines the damage so why ignore calculations? o.O

Ravenwolf
07-13-2011, 06:05 PM
Because I prefer being able to see the damage myself testing it that way, I've been that way with everything I do.

The only thing I can compare to this actually is, at one point I did have a 7/20 aqua crystal +9 that I used on a 79 fa and I raped t1, i lost it while I was on merc and when I came back to venus I put gear back on her minus the cry, got a +9 aqua orb m.amp because I didnt have anything else to use, and noticed I hit considerably less. however that was the same grade, it does make me think cdi over amp though.

@chainlock since you've tested with the topaz amp orbs, whats the base m.att on one?

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 06:25 PM
Easy enough, 7/20 is almost the same pvp/combo damage and WAY more damage in bm2 for FA. 36% is better for other classes so it costs more.

These are stat for the following demonstration.
Player A (7 Amp 20 Dmg Helm)
lvl 170
1100 M Atk
120% CD
54% (+7 Amp)
14 add dmg
50/50 Rate

==================

Player B (36% Dmg Helm)
lvl 170
1100 M atk
136% CD (+16% dmg)
47% Amp
14 add dmg
50/50 rate

Standard PVP vs 900 Def 170 FA

Player A (amp)
Critshot
Base: 351 | Crit: 1134 | AVG: 743
TerraLance
Base: 493 | Crit: 1080 | AVG: 786
Shooting STAR
Base: 774 | Crit: 1633 | AVG: 1188

Player B (crit)

Critshot
base: 332 | Crit: 1124 | AVG: 728
TerraLance
Base: 473 | Crit: 1113 | AVG: 793
Shooting STAR
Base: 721 | Crit: 1697 | AVG: 1209

So player A's Critshot out damage Player B's Crit Critshot on average by 15 damage..
However, Terra Lance is weaker on the Player A's side by 7, when it comes to the big skill / finisher Shooting Star, Player B also outdamage player A on average by 21.

=============

As for Bm2

Base on calculator against 900 defense player, PVP
(note FA's bm2 attack is split into 4 shots, that's why when you Crit, you always see 4 attacks of blue / Crit.)

Player A w/o AOS
============
1st Shot AVG: 131
2nd shot AVG: 137
3rd Shot AVG: 182
4th Shot AVG: 176

Player B w/o AOS
=============
1st Shot AVG: 129
2nd shot AVG: 136
3rd Shot AVG: 180
4th Shot AVG: 174


#############
With Art of Sniping
#############

Player A w/ AOS

1st Shot AVG: 168
2nd shot AVG: 176
3rd Shot AVG: 234
4th Shot AVG: 225

Player B w/ AOS

1st Shot AVG: 164
2nd shot AVG: 172
3rd Shot AVG: 228
4th Shot AVG: 220

############
Conclusion

That 7% amp vs 16% cdi doesn't give you WAY more damage as you speak, in bm2 its about 1-5 damage difference MAX. In most situations, (exceptions of Crit shot), Terra, Fire, Aqua, Shadow, Sonic, Shooting Star OR CANNONS if you use them, 16% dmg deals higher average than 7% amp.

Since Critical Shot is only 1/6th of FA's combo, and the fact that all the 7/20 I've seen are character binding + their prices, compared to 36% dmg helm that are way cheaper and resellable. 36% dmg is definitely the better choice.

This should also conclude the 20% dmg orb vs 7 Amp. 7 Amp orb will deal higher damage than 20% in bm2, but the difference is SMALL. 20% dmg orb have 4% more cdi than the helm, in comparison.. so go figure.

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 06:35 PM
@RavenWolf

DO NOT GET TOPAZ 7/20, it's worse than Forcium 20%
topaz +11 is 154 M atk, Forcium+ is 194.

and if you ever go higher +12 = 160 where +12 forcium = 202. Forcium's m atk is only going higher and higher, the more you +'s it.

40 M atk is definitely > 7 Amp.

jone
07-13-2011, 06:36 PM
Since Critical Shot is only 1/6th of FA's combo, and the fact that all the 7/20 I've seen are character binding + their prices, compared to 36% dmg helm that are way cheaper and resellable. 36% dmg is definitely the better choice.

This should also conclude the 20% dmg orb vs 7 Amp. 7 Amp orb will deal higher damage than 20% in bm2, but the difference is SMALL. 20% dmg orb have 4% more cdi than the helm, in comparison.. so go figure.

For me, crit shot is actually 1/3 of my combo.
So it wouldn't really matter which helmet I use right?

chainlock
07-13-2011, 06:37 PM
SilvusX this was a build for pvp/war AND pve. Bm2 vs players rarely happens, that's why I showed the damage vs average boss defense for end game in the bm2 examples.

MamaMiaYoe
07-13-2011, 06:42 PM
bm1 is good in war too ya know, so the 20/7 being all around that you keep on saying? you might wanna rethink if its really all around :)

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 06:44 PM
For me, crit shot is actually 1/3 of my combo.
So it wouldn't really matter which helmet I use right?

Well what do you use in war? like against guardians? or stand up pvp, I suppose you can use crit, terra, shadow, and go back to crit if Cooldown allows it then finisher, but these days there are players going over 6k hp and our old pvp combos that last like that won't work. Even then, 2/3 of your combo is stronger with 36% damage helm, and finisher is pretty important. Shooting star decided MANY of my Pvps.

I'm also just really against char binding items, I bought one and I regret it so much. If you can't sell it, whatever you put into it is really an waste. Unless you plan on being stuck with the 7/20 all your life on cabal.

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 06:49 PM
SilvusX this was a build for pvp/war AND pve. Bm2 vs players rarely happens, that's why I showed the damage vs average boss defense for end game in the bm2 examples.

Bm2 is surprisingly good in War and let's be honest here.. Besides Pluma (I haven't seen any FA solo this to begin with), and maybe ft2 boss or the new dungeon.. (I never went to). You might deal higher overall damage on amp.. but it's not needed, is it? but all these difficult dungeon, you're likely to be in a party to begin with. Not to mention in ft2, your role is probably keeping an eye on everyone's hp.

With the stat I posted above, any dungeon that a top FA can solo or duo,, this stats allows you. Perhaps amp will let you kill specific boss sooner, but in non bm2, you can clear non high def boss / mob faster.. It somewhat evens out, wouldn't you say so? (like ic1, first batch of boss's defense are quiet low, 20% orb should deal higher average damage, where amp would be stronger vs the final boss 1st and 2nd form). Crit is the direct multiplier of base damage. 20% of 1,000 isn't much, but when you can hit mobs in ic1 for 2k's, then 20% bonus its literally 400 damage more.. 7% amp wouldn't be able to do this.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 07:08 PM
Bm2 is surprisingly good in War and let's be honest here.. Besides Pluma (I haven't seen any FA solo this to begin with), and maybe ft2 boss or the new dungeon.. (I never went to). You might deal higher overall damage on amp.. but it's not needed, is it? but all these difficult dungeon, you're likely to be in a party to begin with. Not to mention in ft2, your role is probably keeping an eye on everyone's hp.

With the stat I posted above, any dungeon that a top FA can solo or duo,, this stats allows you. Perhaps amp will let you kill specific boss sooner, but in non bm2, you can clear non high def boss / mob faster.. It somewhat evens out, wouldn't you say so? (like ic1, first batch of boss's defense are quiet low, 20% orb should deal higher average damage, where amp would be stronger vs the final boss 1st and 2nd form). Crit is the direct multiplier of base damage. 20% of 1,000 isn't much, but when you can hit mobs in ic1 for 2k's, then 20% bonus its literally 400 damage more.. 7% amp wouldn't be able to do this.

That's the joy of the topaz having amp and crit damage.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 07:10 PM
You aren't cutting it out, 7amp/20cd topaz x2 or 7/20 topaz + forci amp/cd gives you more than enough. In pvp 7amp/20cd helm vs 36 damage crit shot hits harder with the 7/20 while other skills do 10-40 more per crit with the 36 and less on non crits. In bm2 the 7/20 helm wins every time.

Don't worry so much about reaching a certain stat point of any kind. Just keep leveling and get the gear you can for now.

People seem to be ignoring this particular sentance a lot.

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 07:53 PM
People seem to be ignoring this particular sentance a lot.

topaz is 40 m atk behind forcium, that ruins the purpose of amp, which is directly multiply on top of it's base m atk. I refuse to believe 40 m atk is lesser than 7 amp.. because that is the difference between +11 topaz and a +11 forcium.

as for crit shot.. it's no longer the highest dps skill fa have, that terra lance buff with 95% amp really killed it in dps.
think about it, since you almost prefer 7 amp over 20 crit dmg.. Difference between Crit shot and Terra lance is really, 105 CD vs 45% amp..

like I said, crit shot is probably the only skill that gets a huge boost off amp, where other skills including finisher (which I think is more important) are stronger with 20 crit dmg. Other skills have the priority in my build.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 08:02 PM
topaz is 40 m atk behind forcium, that ruins the purpose of amp, which is directly multiply on top of it's base m atk. I refuse to believe 40 m atk is lesser than 7 amp.. because that is the difference between +11 topaz and a +11 forcium.

as for crit shot.. it's no longer the highest dps skill fa have, that terra lance buff with 95% amp really killed it in dps.
think about it, since you almost prefer 7 amp over 20 crit dmg.. Difference between Crit shot and Terra lance is really, 105 CD vs 45% amp..

like I said, crit shot is probably the only skill that gets a huge boost off amp, where other skills including finisher (which I think is more important) are stronger with 20 crit dmg. Other skills have the priority in my build.

Refusing to believe something doesn't make it not true.

You don't seem to see the full picture here. You lose about 70 m.atk total if topaz are the same + as forci. You don't lose any cd or amp. You gain both.

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 08:07 PM
Refusing to believe something doesn't make it not true.

You don't seem to see the full picture here. You lose about 70 m.atk total if topaz are the same + as forci. You don't lose any cd or amp. You gain both.

Say I lost 14 amp but gained 80 m atk, I'm sure it does higher average damage, but I'll pull up the calculator again.

edit. just a quick test
on 1100 m atk, 146 cd, 50/50 rate, 47 amp, +14 dmg. lvl 20 terra lance
and 1020 m atk, 146 cd, 50/50 rate, 61 amp, +14 dmg. lvl 20 terra lance

in pvp mode against 170 player w/ 900 defense

avg for 80 m atk bonus = 817
avg for 14 amp bonus = 795.

80 m atk wins hand down.

Edit: i suppose you wanted bm2 test too, I ran through that and the damage difference is barly noticible. over 90 seconds duration of bm2, 14 amp does beat 80 m atk, by 2,000 dmg over 90 seconds. it was total of 100,xxx damage vs 102,xxx damage. Which, is easily fixed with one skill after bm2 end.

chainlock
07-13-2011, 08:16 PM
Say I lost 14 amp but gained 80 m atk, I'm sure it does higher average damage, but I'll pull up the calculator again.

edit. just a quick test
on 1100 m atk, 146 cd, 50/50 rate, 47 amp, +14 dmg. lvl 20 terra lance
and 1020 m atk, 146 cd, 50/50 rate, 61 amp, +14 dmg. lvl 20 terra lance

in pvp mode against 170 player w/ 900 defense

avg for 80 m atk bonus = 817
avg for 14 amp bonus = 795.

80 m atk wins hand down.

Good thing you don't lose 80 then. :)

Why do you 900 defense on everything?

SilvusX
07-13-2011, 08:19 PM
Good thing you don't lose 80 then. :)

Why do you 900 defense on everything?

it's just the default value on the calculator..

edit: i suppose! 900 defense and above is pretty easy to obtain with melee class, but not many wi or fa would have that much. It somewhat evens out, eh?

chainlock
07-13-2011, 10:31 PM
it's just the default value on the calculator..

edit: i suppose! 900 defense and above is pretty easy to obtain with melee class, but not many wi or fa would have that much. It somewhat evens out, eh?

It's a pretty sold number for the 3 lower defense classes I suppose.

Some of you have already seen a few people that use 7/20-7/24 topazs already, the most popular one was probably phantast1c.

MamaMiaYoe
07-14-2011, 03:51 AM
phan uses a 40% crystal not a 20/7

Daedgo
07-14-2011, 05:23 AM
Guy lsn to miavii... just for lil reason, shes one of the best FA in this game... nothing more to say.

ChinaEyez
07-14-2011, 06:48 AM
I wuv miavii too, shes my idol FA. ^^

MamaMiaYoe
07-14-2011, 08:27 AM
<3

chainlock
07-14-2011, 11:01 AM
phan uses a 40% crystal not a 20/7

It was a 7/24.

MamaMiaYoe
07-14-2011, 11:20 AM
His magic skill amp wont be 46% if thats the case. Im sure its 40%

Slowpoke
07-14-2011, 11:32 AM
It was a 7/24.

it was a 7/24topaz xtal, he tried to +12 i think when it failed he raged quit...

Milk
07-14-2011, 12:21 PM
Guy lsn to miavii... just for lil reason, shes one of the best FA in this game... nothing more to say.

i bet she's also best in bed ^_^

SilvusX
07-15-2011, 10:25 PM
It was a 7/24.

This is correct, I do recall a member from evoL telling me that phan stopped using dual forcium for topaz 7 amp dual slot topaz orb