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lGlIlLl
02-23-2012, 06:25 PM
good day to all im GIL of cabal PH
lGlIlLl/Neptune/16X Blader and im here to ask some advice.

currently im a having this equipment
swords: 1x redosmi katana of fatal +9 8% crits 20% cdi (2slots)
1x osmi katana 26% cdi (1slot)
armors: +8 osmium headpiece of fatal 36 cdi
suit,gloves and boots all +8 of amp
with eof +6
ring's: 1x merga 1xring of luck +2 2xcrit ring +1
bracelet's:2x BOF+3 sloted
earing: vamp earingss +3
amulet: amulet of pain +5

future swords:
a. 2xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)
b. 2xmitril katana/blade of amp 3-4%amp 20%cdi (2slots)
c. 1xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)
1x redosmi katana of outrageous 7%amp 20%cdi

i wanna hear some advice with this weapons ^_^
thanks in advance

*cadacus_ater hope you can comment with this. i read almots all of of your threads and it is very useful. thx

chainlock
02-23-2012, 07:37 PM
3 amp 20% crit forci are the best out of all the swords you listed by far. The only things that can compare in that list is the 7 amp 20% crit red osm at +15, then if you can extend and get rate it's better.

cadacus_ater
02-23-2012, 08:58 PM
Option b is probably your best bet. Unless of course you have 5 bil alz or something lying around, then you could invest in option c like chainlock said.
In general, 20% CDI Forcium Blades/Katanas of Amp are the most ideal weapons a blader can get (My dream setup would wield 2 20% cdi, 7 or 8% amp forcium blades).

But if you are lucky enough to get a 40 damage forcium weapon, by all means use it, lol.

lGlIlLl
02-23-2012, 09:58 PM
@chainlock nice idea thx
@cadacus_ater ty sir for ur comments. here in Philippines the +10mitril katana of deathblow 2.5b is more expensive than +10mitril katan of amp 3-4% amp cost 1-1.5b.. i don't know why it so expesive!

i think il go for the amp katana thank you ^_^

looks like save more alz ^_^ for this..

lGlIlLl
02-23-2012, 10:04 PM
that's right most of char right now has already crit resist .. i think amp will be better. i am right?

cadacus_ater
02-24-2012, 04:31 AM
The reason amp craft forcium with 20 cdi is nice is that it helps with bm2 damage and non-crits without sacrificing as much crit damage.
So you still crit decently while boosting your base attack and amp to help non-crits. For pure pvp, some people prefer the extra crit damage so they crit really hard. This isn't as balanced though in general.

lGlIlLl
02-24-2012, 05:31 AM
ive seen +10 mitril Blade of amp 4% amp 20cdi 2.1b
what do you think?

Davynelord
02-24-2012, 12:39 PM
Well actually I did some number crunching for you....however, I had to come up with rough estimates since all the needed values weren't listed to come up with exact results for your character...Also I assumed all weapons are +9 because you didn't mention what level you would buy the new weapons at or how high you would plus them...but the bottom line is this....


future swords:
SET A
a. 2xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)

Two of these will do the most crit damage and 2nd in base damage out of the 3 weapon sets...

SET B
b. 2xmitril katana/blade of amp 3-4%amp 20%cdi (2slots)

Two of these will do the most base damage and 2nd best crit damage of the 3 weapon sets...doesn't matter if you use 3% amp weapons or 4% amp...this set still is 1st in base damage and 2nd in crit damage.

SET C
c. 1xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)
1x redosmi katana of outrageous 7%amp 20%cdi

This weapon combo will do the lowest base damage and the lowest Crit damage...

However, if you upgrade the red osm to a +15, then this weapon set will take the place of SET A and become the 1st best in crit damage and become 2nd best base damage set...but it will only have 3 - 5 less base damage than SET B...so you can say that isn't a big difference at all...thus you can consider it to be the best set of the 3.


But there is one bigger issue here....

the cost and/or effort to getting a +15 Red Osm is gonna be steep (likely cost 1 - 2 billion)....I mean if you got the funds to get that, then you might as well go for a +10 or better Forcium weapon with 3%+ amp instead....a +10 Forcium is much easier and cheaper to get than a +15 red Osm with 7% amp...and it increases your damage by just as much if not more. Right now I look in AH and see a +8 forcium 3% amp 10% CD weapon for 145 million...it's not easy to +10 it, but it's easier to +10 that than to +15 a Red Osm and far cheaper than buying a +15 Red Osm.

Bottom line, if your gonna spend billions or try to +15 anything, it's probably better in most cases to go for Forcium upgrading instead....base attack is highly underrated in cabal...too many people are in love with 7% amp and don't realize that base attack is equally important, if not more important in some cases.

chainlock
02-24-2012, 01:16 PM
Well actually I did some number crunching for you....however, I had to come up with rough estimates since all the needed values weren't listed to come up with exact results for your character...Also I assumed all weapons are +9 because you didn't mention what level you would buy the new weapons at or how high you would plus them...but the bottom line is this....


future swords:
SET A
a. 2xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)

Two of these will do the most crit damage and 2nd in base damage out of the 3 weapon sets... These 2 will only crit harder by a VERY small amount on the 3 big skills. On all of the small skills 3/20 and 7/20 will crit harder. These are also the worst in bm2.

SET B
b. 2xmitril katana/blade of amp 3-4%amp 20%cdi (2slots)

Two of these will do the most base damage and 2nd best crit damage of the 3 weapon sets...doesn't matter if you use 3% amp weapons or 4% amp...this set still is 1st in base damage and 2nd in crit damage. In bm2 these are the best hands down if you can get 4%+, 3% is = to 7/20 red osm pretty much. They are also the best for all filler skills in combo while just a few damage behind the 26% on the 3 big skills.

SET C
c. 1xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)
1x redosmi katana of outrageous 7%amp 20%cdi IF this can get +15 it beats anything mentioned, if he can extend it to a 7/7/24 even at = + there's no contest.

This weapon combo will do the lowest base damage and the lowest Crit damage...

However, if you upgrade the red osm to a +15, then this weapon set will take the place of SET A and become the 1st best in crit damage and become 2nd best base damage set...but it will only have 3 - 5 less base damage than SET B...so you can say that isn't a big difference at all...thus you can consider it to be the best set of the 3.


But there is one bigger issue here.... He already mentioned that 3/4% amp with 20 cd was cheaper than most things. We also don't know if they have safe guards or the prices of ech/echh, if they do +15 7/20 red osm or sig will be better than any forcium he mentioned unless he can + the forcium up to 14/15.

the cost and/or effort to getting a +15 Red Osm is gonna be steep (likely cost 1 - 2 billion)....I mean if you got the funds to get that, then you might as well go for a +10 or better Forcium weapon with 3%+ amp instead....a +10 Forcium is much easier and cheaper to get than a +15 red Osm with 7% amp...and it increases your damage by just as much if not more. Right now I look in AH and see a +8 forcium 3% amp 10% CD weapon for 145 million...it's not easy to +10 it, but it's easier to +10 that than to +15 a Red Osm and far cheaper than buying a +15 Red Osm. We can't say for sure it's cheaper to +10 forcium than it is to get +15 red osm, it's 100% based on luck.

Bottom line, if your gonna spend billions or try to +15 anything, it's probably better in most cases to go for Forcium upgrading instead....base attack is highly underrated in cabal...too many people are in love with 7% amp and don't realize that base attack is equally important, if not more important in some cases.Base attack and amp are interchangable, there are points where they are just about = to each other.

Corrections in the quote.

Davynelord
02-24-2012, 01:16 PM
Oh, I just noticed OP is from Philippines...not sure if you need advice for your character in PH or if your playing a blader in NA....my advice is base on NA pricing and availability...if it helps you in PH, then great...other than that, it's all I can provide...either way it goes, whether your in PH or NA, the weapon sets will still do the same damages in relation to each other.



As for this...

+10 mitril Blade of amp 4% amp 20cdi 2.1b

I would never spend that much for that blade....that is outrageous...it's cheaper to buy a +0 4%amp and plus it to +10 yourself...getting to +7 is extremely easy...+8 and +9 annoying but not hard...+10 kinda lucky...+11 or higher and you might spend 1 billiion or more lol...but either way, you'll spend less getting it to +10 than you would paying 2.1b...

In fact, If I did get one to +9 even, I'd consider selling it for 800m just because the person selling the +10 for 2.1b may have set a price that I could undercut and make some money from it...

Davynelord
02-24-2012, 07:20 PM
Corrections in the quote.

Thx for corrections....but!!!! this is why I hate posting without all the details....I was trying to keep the post as small as possible...posting all the data for every situation would make my post way longer than they need to be...

First off, I base my values strictly on the thread starters stats (estimated to the best of my ability) and not just the weapons themselves...also, I calculated weapon combo's not one weapon vs another weapon....you never use just one weapon in combat so comparing one weapon verse another tells you nothing.

Secondly, I used +9 weapons equally for all weapons because the OP did not state the level of the upgraded weapons he wanted and so since he already had +9's equipped, I used +9 as my base weapon level...no point in comparing a +9 mith with a +15 red osm...that is redundant...at least my sense tells me if I'm gonna upgrade weapons and go +15 red osm, then if I choose 2x mith weapons instead, I'm gonna at least try to +12 one or both of them as well...



SET A
a. 2xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)

Two of these will do the most crit damage and 2nd in base damage out of the 3 weapon sets... These 2 will only crit harder by a VERY small amount on the 3 big skills. On all of the small skills 3/20 and 7/20 will crit harder. These are also the worst in bm2.

What did you base that on? I based mine on calculating the stats of the thread starter...if your just taking the weapons and comparing them to each other without factoring in the stats from all the gear of the character, then you will get different results....

With the stats I used, SET A does more CD than all other SETS...because SET A has 36 more base attack and 6% more CD than SET C and 12% more CD and same base attack as SET B....So if you do the math, SET C can never do more crits than SET A when both base attack and CD are lower unless you add a massive amount of amp from gear into the equation...and adding 7% amp just won't do it because 36 base attack is greater than 7% amp when your above 950 base attack...

For example, I estimate 160 BL has at least 616 base attack with all gears the OP listed above except the 2 weapons...so add in SET A weapons (its now 970 base attack)....do same with SET C's weapons (it's now 934 base attack)....That's a 36 difference.

Now take LS(9) it has 70% amp, 799 add damage...

With SET C

70% (amp from LS)
40% (amp from gear)
7% (amp from red Osm)

Total of 117% amp

934 * (1 + 1.17) + 799 = 2825.78 base damage (truncate it to 2825 since decimals don't round up for damage).

The crit damage from gear is 82%...add in the 46%CD from weapons (that's 1 mith 26% CD and 1 red osm 20%CD)...then 10% CD from LS and total is 138% CD...

NOTE: normally you would subtract defense from 2825....but I leave this out for simplicity...

2825 * (1 + 1.38) = 6723.5

Now lets do the same with SET A and LS
70% (amp from LS)
40% (amp from gear)

Total of 110% amp

970 * (1 + 1.10) + 799 = 2836

Crit damage is higher, 52% from using 2 mith weapons with 26% CD each...so with 82% from gear it + 52% from weapons and 10% amp from LS it comes to 144% CD

2836 * (1 + 1.44) = 6919.84

As you can see, SET A does more base damage and Crit damage than SET C when using LS...you can calculate every skill for both sets and SET A will do more base and more CD than SET C for every skill based on the stats used (it may differ for another player and their gear however...this is why you have to calculate it for your character and not just universally believe x is better than y all the time....

Overall, the reason why SET A is better than SET C is because 36 extra base attack (from SET A) is roughly equal to just over 7% amp (from SET C)....so by having 7% less amp in SET A than from SET C, your not losing much due to the higher base attack of SET A making up for the lose of 7% amp from the red osm weapon....add in the fact that SET A has higher Crit damage as well, you will see no matter what, SET C can't do more damage than SET A....base or crit...

However, there is sometimes a small difference in that if your amp is too low (say from a skill such as assault), then 36 base attack will not fully equal 7% amp...in fact, it would only equal 6% amp if you using the stats of the OP to calculate damage...therefore, it is possible that the 4 lowest level skills (usually any skill that has under 40% amp) can possibly do less damage with SET A than with one of the other SETS....but even so, it would only be about a 1 - 5 damage difference and this is not something you'd base your weapon choice on...

Now SET A vs SET B also have it's issues...simply put, They both have the same base attack but SET B has lower CD than SET A...SET B also has more amp (6% or 8%) which make it do more base damage than SET A....but SET A has 12% more crit damage, thus that makes up for the amp difference that SET B has and allows SET A to do more crit damage, however slight it is, than SET B...

So again, SET A will do more crit damage than the other sets when you do the math based on the (estimated) stats of the character in this thread, the OP a.k.a. the person that started this thread.



SET B
b. 2xmitril katana/blade of amp 3-4%amp 20%cdi (2slots)

Two of these will do the most base damage and 2nd best crit damage of the 3 weapon sets...doesn't matter if you use 3% amp weapons or 4% amp...this set still is 1st in base damage and 2nd in crit damage. In bm2 these are the best hands down if you can get 4%+, 3% is = to 7/20 red osm pretty much. They are also the best for all filler skills in combo while just a few damage behind the 26% on the 3 big skills.

sorry 3% is not always = 7/20 red osm...in fact more often than not they are not equal...yeah yeah, the difference is often very little, but in my book more is more...even if it's 1 damage more, that matters and in a long fight (say vs a dungeon boss), those extra 1's add up...




SET C
c. 1xmitril katana/blade of dethblow 26% cdi (2slots)
1x redosmi katana of outrageous 7%amp 20%cdi IF this can get +15 it beats anything mentioned, if he can extend it to a 7/7/24 even at = + there's no contest.

again, I say that's redundant...What your saying is like saying, my car can go faster than yours if I put nitro in mine and you put none in yours...if you +15 the red osm, chances are you'd upgrade one or both of the weapons in SET A or SET B as well if you were to use them instead of SET C....therefore, SET C won't beat the other SETS at all if all things (meaning weapon level) being equal...

Remember, +15 red osm base attack caps at 180...forcium caps at 228....that's a massive difference....if you go +15 red osm, you only need about +12 forcium to beat it...maybe +11...I haven't done the numbers on that one though, just estimated guess atm based on the numbers in my head LOL.






But there is one bigger issue here.... He already mentioned that 3/4% amp with 20 cd was cheaper than most things. We also don't know if they have safe guards or the prices of ech/echh, if they do +15 7/20 red osm or sig will be better than any forcium he mentioned unless he can + the forcium up to 14/15.

If you've read above, you will see that what you said is also not totally true...you don't need +15 mith to beat out a +15 red osm...

As for SG's and ECH's....you really don't need them...blader is the best class for getting as many UC's as you need to keep trying to plus gear....I personally solo CA3 for cores and so even if I fail to upgrade, so what, it cost me very little to nothing to run CA....if your doing anything from Sig or lower, then all you need to do is solo CA2 which is even cheaper. Even running EOD2 gets you a fair amount of UCH's and UCHH's...there are 18 chest in there, you can get at least 7 or so UC's each run....IC1 gives UCH's like crazy...SOD is probably the best for UCH's as well...bottom line, I've never bought UC's to upgrade my gear...well except when I'm just too darn lazy to run any dungeons and just want to quickly go to +6 on something when I'm out of cores.



the cost and/or effort to getting a +15 Red Osm is gonna be steep (likely cost 1 - 2 billion)....I mean if you got the funds to get that, then you might as well go for a +10 or better Forcium weapon with 3%+ amp instead....a +10 Forcium is much easier and cheaper to get than a +15 red Osm with 7% amp...and it increases your damage by just as much if not more. Right now I look in AH and see a +8 forcium 3% amp 10% CD weapon for 145 million...it's not easy to +10 it, but it's easier to +10 that than to +15 a Red Osm and far cheaper than buying a +15 Red Osm. We can't say for sure it's cheaper to +10 forcium than it is to get +15 red osm, it's 100% based on luck.

You misunderstood me....I'm saying if you can buy a +10 forcy 3amp 10% Cd for 145m (how cheap is that compared to a 1 billion+ +15 red osm), it's likely you won't spend 1.5 billion getting it to at least +12 (though it's possible you might)...but if you buy the +15 red osm, not only would you be guaranteed to spend 1 to 1.5 billion (if that's what it cost, is what the last one cost that I seen for sale)...but you would end up with a weapon that does less damage than forcium.

Either way, even if you did spend 1.5 billion trying to upgrade the forcium, the reward for succeeding is greater than just burning 1.5b on a red osm that you will eventually want/need to replace once you get to 170, 180 or for the new update, 190...You can't tell me that a level 160 blader will want to have a +15 red osm 7/20 weapon for the next 30 levels or as an end-game weapon?

For me, I felt red osm was too weak for me at level 109 while I was doing T2...LOL...sorry, in my book, go forcy or go home (for weapons at least) once your up in the 160+ levels....at least get some sig or something but red osm isn't all that great at high levels when you face defenses in the 1000's (especially at the prices they go for a +15)....you'll need more base and as much amp as you can get...CD is becoming a bit overrated with how you can stack crit rate/damage resist....I mean SI + Saint's buff + Honor Titles will murder your crit rate/damage chances...really, when I see a BL, i'm only slightly concerned if they are in BM2 + aura and get the jump on me before I can combo...other wise, I laugh at them because they are so easy to kill....



Bottom line, if your gonna spend billions or try to +15 anything, it's probably better in most cases to go for Forcium upgrading instead....base attack is highly underrated in cabal...too many people are in love with 7% amp and don't realize that base attack is equally important, if not more important in some cases.Base attack and amp are interchangable, there are points where they are just about = to each other.


This is somewhat true...but it leads people to believe that they are equal more often than not...truth is more often than not they are NOT equal or interchangeable. There is a huge difference in having 400 base attack and 1000 base attack and how amp effects damage for either one...




Well I hope I've cleared up any misunderstandings...I try to be thorough with these things and include as many angles and points of views as possible, but I am human and not perfect, so oh well, get what you can from this...I likely won't be back to post anything more here...I believe I overstayed my welcome...especially for the TL;DR people LMAO....

chainlock
02-24-2012, 08:10 PM
If I said I was goign to read any of that I'd be lying, haha.

lGlIlLl
02-25-2012, 04:28 AM
@Davynelord wow its amazing ty for the effort guyzz i really help a lot

cadacus_ater
02-25-2012, 11:24 AM
@Davynelord

Yay! I found someone other than me who made super long technical posts :D

lGlIlLl
02-25-2012, 06:53 PM
yah he work hard in calculating those numbers.just like you. btw i choice your blader guide in terms of skills and its work well for me LS12 DT18 BS 9.

chainlock
02-25-2012, 10:57 PM
yah he work hard in calculating those numbers.just like you. btw i choice your blader guide in terms of skills and its work well for me LS12 DT18 BS 9.

I do it the easy way and simply use the character builder and lasthours damage calculator. The damage calc on this site is WAY off.