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View Full Version : Fa's Lance is buffed!



SilvusX
09-23-2010, 01:53 AM
Did anyone notice this? I never really paid attention until I went on my wi and realize my wi's terra is 10% less amp than my FA's. :D
This makes Terra -> Shadowshot, and fire and aqua lance extremely close to shadowshot's damage.

SoooRite
09-23-2010, 03:37 AM
Did anyone notice this? I never really paid attention until I went on my wi and realize my wi's terra is 10% less amp than my FA's. :D
This makes Terra -> Shadowshot, and fire and aqua lance extremely close to shadowshot's damage.

umm lol someone just told u that yesterday o.O

Nanjirou
09-24-2010, 01:22 AM
They upped the cannons too. Stone cannon now has 110% amp, aqua and fire do 95% amp now. FA who use all lances should look into getting at least stone cannon.

Deathlymonkey
09-24-2010, 04:55 AM
That is one of the reasons FA's dps > wiz dps

WIpwns
09-24-2010, 12:20 PM
gogogo fas duo ft2
kill tyrant faster than wiz!







oh wait 1 shot material gets 1 shotted

chainlock
09-24-2010, 07:49 PM
That is one of the reasons FA's dps > wiz dps

Auto attacking maybe.

SilvusX
09-24-2010, 10:10 PM
Auto attacking maybe.

I'm pretty sure Fa will beat Wi in combo dps too. Unless Wi some how gotten more base rate OR topaz, lapis, forcium 7/40, 7/34 becomes more common. Fa will have more m atk with dual forcium orb than dual extended phery / lapis. Fa's Sonic Shooter also have 10% more amp than meteorite.

chainlock
09-24-2010, 10:50 PM
I'm pretty sure Fa will beat Wi in combo dps too. Unless Wi some how gotten more base rate OR topaz, lapis, forcium 7/40, 7/34 becomes more common. Fa will have more m atk with dual forcium orb than dual extended phery / lapis. Fa's Sonic Shooter also have 10% more amp than meteorite.

When you compare something like that you should really compare it with equal gear.

SilvusX
09-25-2010, 01:13 AM
When you compare something like that you should really compare it with equal gear.

Let's start with the basic. Fa naturally have 11% rate than wi because of lv. 11 astral bow. Now, with the lance buffed, Fa basically have 10% more amp advantage than Wi. Spur himself have already said for Wi, Terra Lance have the highest dps. Now, with 10% bonus amp, even fire / aqua lance are stronger than wi's terra lance. Basically, FA already have 11% rate and 10% amp ahead of Wi before equipment comes in place (Not to mention finisher such as Sonic Shooter and Shooting Star are stronger than EDC and Meteorite in pvp).

Now, to compare the class with "equal" equipment".

I'm a mFa with pretty average gears, running around with dual forcium orbs +8 (10% crit dmg), and I have 1007 M Atk. I still don't know any wi around my level with greater M Atk because of the difference between forcium and phery / lapis orbs. Each of that +8 forcium orb worth about 180-210 M, while wi's phery with rate in slot can go for 3-4 times as much, adding extender would be another 50m. Higher end lapis db extended would cost even more, not to mention SeH costs 2 billion. So, What I'd consider equal in this case would probably be the lower end phery craft, 3-4 rate, or 6-7 dmg vs forci +8 10 cdi orbs in term of price . As for armor, for a mFa armor is pretty much the same, unless wi uses mystic / forcium, while Battle Fa's equipment costs almost 2-3x less. (Ie, 36% dmg Battlehelm is 180m, 7 amp / 100 hp battlesuit = 180m while that martial helm / suit are easily 2x over that.)

Go figure.

chainlock
09-25-2010, 10:12 AM
I'm a mFa with pretty average gears, running around with dual forcium orbs +8 (10% crit dmg), and I have 1007 M Atk. I still don't know any wi around my level with greater M Atk because of the difference between forcium and phery / lapis orbs.

Wizard get more base m.atk than FA. Here are my stats with phery/forci and forci/forci. Cost is irrelevant for this testing. The deciding factor is going to come down to who has more crit damage and who actually gets their crits.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/pheryforci.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/forciforci.jpg

Matrimoney
09-25-2010, 10:16 AM
Wizard get more base m.atk than FA. Here are my stats with phery/forci and forci/forci. Cost is irrelevant for this testing. The deciding factor is going to come down to who has more crit damage and who actually gets their crits.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/pheryforci.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/forciforci.jpg

lol 1085 mag atk with with dual forcs? i got like 1115 with forc/lapis..

Sonic
09-25-2010, 10:34 AM
lol 1085 mag atk with with dual forcs? i got like 1115 with forc/lapis..

notice the lvl

SilvusX
09-25-2010, 01:16 PM
Wizard get more base m.atk than FA. Here are my stats with phery/forci and forci/forci. Cost is irrelevant for this testing. The deciding factor is going to come down to who has more crit damage and who actually gets their crits.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/pheryforci.jpg
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/forciforci.jpg

Indeed wi gets more base attack than fa, but you SAID comparison on equal equipment; while your two screenshots are definitely not equal comparison to my stats

and why isn't cost relevant? think about it,

If you spent 500m - billions on decent a phery rate/dmg orb, and you want to compare it to someone with a +8 forci orb that only costs 180m?
Where would the other 600+m go? When something is compared, you compare it by its value. with that 600m+ I could get forci orb +11 with cdi, or get eos+7.

2nd of all, I'm using a much weaker equipment compare to you. You never shown your critical damage or forci and phery orb +'s. and you have eos+7 when I'm only running a +6.

Lastly, because you are using 3x rol+1, you are losing potentially 10-15 cdi to FA, because free 11% rate > rol+1.
10% m amp is comparable to 50 M atk.

1000 * 1.95% amp = (1950)
1050 * 1.85% amp = (1942.5)

just think about it.

chainlock
09-25-2010, 02:04 PM
Indeed wi gets more base attack than fa, but you SAID comparison on equal equipment; while your two screenshots are definitely not equal comparison to my stats

and why isn't cost relevant? think about it,

If you spent 500m - billions on decent a phery rate/dmg orb, and you want to compare it to someone with a +8 forci orb that only costs 180m?
Where would the other 600+m go? When something is compared, you compare it by its value. with that 600m+ I could get forci orb +11 with cdi, or get eos+7.

2nd of all, I'm using a much weaker equipment compare to you. You never shown your critical damage or forci and phery orb +'s. and you have eos+7 when I'm only running a +6.

Lastly, because you are using 3x rol+1, you are losing potentially 10-15 cdi to FA, because free 11% rate > rol+1.
10% m amp is comparable to 50 M atk.

1000 * 1.95% amp = (1950)
1050 * 1.85% amp = (1942.5)

just think about it.

What's not equal about those compared to you? If you're a martial FA that's almost the exact set up you would use other than the gloves and boots. The + of the forci doesn't matter, if you're comparing the 2 characters you should give them the same +. Price also doesn't matter because it's possible to make/find your own gear instead of buying it.

You aren't using 3 RoL on your FA? 10% amp only compares to 50 m atk when you reach a certain damage. It changes depending on your base.

Here are my FA stats, the left one is me as martial build at level 154.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/armorvsmartialfa.jpg

SilvusX
09-25-2010, 03:39 PM
What's not equal about those compared to you? If you're a martial FA that's almost the exact set up you would use other than the gloves and boots. The + of the forci doesn't matter, if you're comparing the 2 characters you should give them the same +. Price also doesn't matter because it's possible to make/find your own gear instead of buying it.

You aren't using 3 RoL on your FA? 10% amp only compares to 50 m atk when you reach a certain damage. It changes depending on your base.

Here are my FA stats, the left one is me as martial build at level 154.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h210/tjxs/armorvsmartialfa.jpg


If Price does not matter then ofc Wi would > Fa in Dps because WI will no longer have rate problem with 7/40 helm, dual 7/40 orbs. + Merg Ring + base is already at 41% rate.

But realistically, Fa have 11% more rate than wi, which wi can either fix by weapon, helm, or ring. so Wi have to make the sacrifice somewhere and FA does not, and instead FA would gain upper hand either with higher m atk orbs, or switch off the Rate with critical damage. As for me, no I do not use 3x rol+1; FA board + merg + rol+1 + astral weapon = 44%. Since your fa have 1049 m Atk (39 highter than ur wi w/ phery) does that not prove mFA have higher m atk than Wi? How many Wi's runs around with dual forcium orbs for pvp here in Na Cabal?

Lastly, this is how braces (number) on certain skill works.
The calculation is base M Atk * (skill amp + item amp) + added damage = numbers in (xxxx).
Which base of 1k m atk (Where we are both at), 10% amp > 50 m Atk.

1000 * 1.95% amp = (1950)
1050 * 1.85% amp = (1942.5)

With the Rate (potential bonus Cdi), orb's higher m atk, 10% skill amp is what makes me believe FA > Wi in DPS, in and outside of combo.

chainlock
09-25-2010, 04:22 PM
If Price does not matter then ofc Wi would > Fa in Dps

That's the only part that matters.

chickenpotpie
09-25-2010, 05:10 PM
If Price does not matter then ofc Wi would > Fa in Dps because WI will no longer have rate problem with 7/40 helm, dual 7/40 orbs. + Merg Ring + base is already at 41% rate.

But realistically, Fa have 11% more rate than wi, which wi can either fix by weapon, helm, or ring. so Wi have to make the sacrifice somewhere and FA does not, and instead FA would gain upper hand either with higher m atk orbs, or switch off the Rate with critical damage. As for me, no I do not use 3x rol+1; FA board + merg + rol+1 + astral weapon = 44%. Since your fa have 1049 m Atk (39 highter than ur wi w/ phery) does that not prove mFA have higher m atk than Wi? How many Wi's runs around with dual forcium orbs for pvp here in Na Cabal?

Lastly, this is how braces (number) on certain skill works.
The calculation is base M Atk * (skill amp + item amp) + added damage = numbers in (xxxx).
Which base of 1k m atk (Where we are both at), 10% amp > 50 m Atk.

1000 * 1.95% amp = (1950)
1050 * 1.85% amp = (1942.5)

With the Rate (potential bonus Cdi), orb's higher m atk, 10% skill amp is what makes me believe FA > Wi in DPS, in and outside of combo.

Any decent wiz will have around 1k magic and 160+ cd. What is your crit dmg again with 2 forci orbs?

SilvusX
09-25-2010, 05:12 PM
Any decent wiz will have around 1k magic and 160+ cd. What is your crit dmg again with 2 forci orbs?

I had 111% cdi, but then again I'm just an average FA.

by your logic, Any decent mFa would have around 1.1k m atk with 130+ Cdi, I don't consider that too far off. 100 m atk should be some where close, if not better. (as Ros+10 > Cr+2). top mFa such as, button had 1.2k m atk (and that was way back), so go figure.

Again, the point here is, despite the lower base mAtk, Fa have higher base Rate, which most wi exchange their m Atk for that rate with extended phery lapis etc. Then with the buffed 10% skill amp is what makes me believe FA > Wi in DPS, in and outside of combo.

honestly, both you and chainlock, Can you please provide some good argument rather than showing me bunch of stats?

Only thing I'd consider near equal comparison would be term of price / value. Most of extended phery orb with rate worth more than forci +8 (10% cdi) alone. Notice those top wi with extended lapis etc, money play a big factor. with that money, you can buy a double slot forc orb with 20% cdi. your requirement of "decent wi" costs a lot, and you are just comparing to my little fa who's gear probably does not exceed even 1.5 billion.

chainlock
09-25-2010, 05:31 PM
honestly, both you and chainlock, Can you please provide some good argument rather than showing me bunch of stats?


Go play a wiz, you'll see it for yourself.

SilvusX
09-25-2010, 06:06 PM
I have a wiz, with dual phery orb and 3x rol+1. it's not high as my fa ofc nor do i have any alz to really invest into it. I find FA overall cost less, and I'm sure for the same money FA outdps wi until the ultimate end gear, which gives wi the rate they lack and naturally higher m atk.

chainlock
09-25-2010, 08:50 PM
I have a wiz, with dual phery orb and 3x rol+1. it's not high as my fa ofc nor do i have any alz to really invest into it. I find FA overall cost less, and I'm sure for the same money FA outdps wi until the ultimate end gear, which gives wi the rate they lack and naturally higher m atk.

If you want a really good FA it's going to cost just as much and take just as much, if not more, work as any character. A wiz with dual phery, 5% mystic, 7/50 martial suit, 30% crit helm, and 3 rol is good enough to 3-4 bar penna at 140 and do basically any dungeon other than FT b2f. A FA takes WAY better gear to even compete with that.

MamaMiaYoe
09-26-2010, 10:43 AM
If you want a really good FA it's going to cost just as much and take just as much, if not more, work as any character. A wiz with dual phery, 5% mystic, 7/50 martial suit, 30% crit helm, and 3 rol is good enough to 3-4 bar penna at 140 and do basically any dungeon other than FT b2f. A FA takes WAY better gear to even compete with that.

Its both the same. Even a wi needs to have good gear to achieve those. But like i said, vamp does help alot. Both class got AoE skill so just an hp steal ring, and vampiric earing equipped they should be good in pve.

Enso
09-26-2010, 11:03 AM
My FA has very basic gear, actually, below average at this point; and I can beat my WI friend who is the same level as me and has WAY better gear (EoS7 > EoS6, CR2 > CR1, dual extended phery > +8 10 cdi forcy, board > no board, +7 stit amp > +6 stit amp). Oh and it's not like I win 1 out of every 20 PvP's, it's like she wins 1 out of every 20 PvP's.

Power of Crit Shot, Shadow Shot, and Shooting Star thank you very much.

SilvusX
09-26-2010, 12:24 PM
If you want a really good FA it's going to cost just as much and take just as much, if not more, work as any character. A wiz with dual phery, 5% mystic, 7/50 martial suit, 30% crit helm, and 3 rol is good enough to 3-4 bar penna at 140 and do basically any dungeon other than FT b2f. A FA takes WAY better gear to even compete with that.

Fyi, couple month ago i was 14x I only had plain amp boot, 7/50 suit, s.t battle glove and 30 dmg martial helm with cr+1 and forci orb +8 and I've run fi, aos1 with ease in a party. can easily Dual run eod b2f without death, can solo run FT with any key chest, nesbite and chakris, but would have trouble with orca sometimes, but can still do it with 6.5 bars of sp. even with crappy 58x def, I can still do all that. With that set 300m amp boot, 100m suit, dual 180m worth orb, and a 25m helm, 90m glove, with 1 rol, merg, and 1 cr+1. combined and it's still less than what you listed. so like miavii said, it's the vamp that really matters.

and honestly, any decent phery worth way more than +8 forci crit orb, a decent phery with rate is already near 1 billion range. Just check shops and auction house. mFA would be using almost identical armor, so that'd be the same price. Battle Fa would cost way less and have even more hp / defense and have easier time doing the dungeon you listed.

oh and I missed this part,



Quote Originally Posted by SilvusX View Post
If Price does not matter then ofc Wi would > Fa in Dps

That's the only part that matters.
Yeah, when both class are using dual forc orb 7/40 and 7/40 helm then I might agree with you.

oh and I did a quick check on m atk difference between Fa and Wi on cabal character builder at 15th grade rank, dual transcender, it's quiet big. Was something like 83 m atk difference at 150x wi vs 150 fa. But Mana Condense and Astral bow together adds 40 m atk, adding the 10% amp lances (which roughly beats 50 m atk at 1k m atk base). So.. yeah. I'm going back with, disagreeing.