RuoExtraxi versus Desolation: a Venus drama, a special guest appearance by Apocalypse

[Darkstar135]

Bottom line. Just because people are in different guilds doesn't mean that you cannot stay friends. I have had many friends leave guilds i was in for others for many reasons, I wished them the best of luck and still talk to them from time to time.

Funny how you mention this, yet you removed most(if not all) of your old friends(guildies)secretly from your buddy list. Contradicting if you ask me.

[Athian]

Funny how you mention this, yet you removed most(if not all) of your old friends(guildies)secretly from your buddy list. Contradicting if you ask me.

With the amount of stress I am/was going through, last thing I wanted is someone else adding to it. I did it I wont deny it. But then again I also felt they where probably the angriest with me with how things turned out and did not feel like I was much of a friend to them. So yes I took them off.

[icecreamman]

wtf ... guilds die, they're sold, they merge, they change .... how is this new?? and why does everyone else but the people that were in the party have an issue with the epic GS that dropped? seriously as long as the party is happy with the way things went down and they all agree it's no one's business .. it's gotta be jealousy. Jenn didn't leave guild b/c of that drop lmao she's still friends with everyone in that party and they still run dungeons together regardless of guild. and bashing Jenn and Athian? for what? they're both good and trustworthy people. you guys already remade Ruo .. move on. I don't even understand why Jenn and Athian are even still trying to make you guys happy ... more power to em. and the other thing ... chippo said when we merged he logged on to having like 40 new people ... guild holds 120 and it was full at the time of voting ... so there was 80 people in Ruo before the name change so how was Ruo out voted??? they even gave it an extra couple days after voting was suppose to be said and done just to make sure no one was missed. chippo writes this like it's his life story or something, and if it is ... lol ... give me a break! KILL THE FOCKING THREAD ALREADY AND STOP CRYING LIKE A I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥!

-Scarlet

[Shinji]

wtf ... guilds die, they're sold, they merge, they change .... how is this new?? and why does everyone else but the people that were in the party have an issue with the epic GS that dropped? seriously as long as the party is happy with the way things went down and they all agree it's no one's business .. it's gotta be jealousy. Jenn didn't leave guild b/c of that drop lmao she's still friends with everyone in that party and they still run dungeons together regardless of guild. and bashing Jenn and Athian? for what? they're both good and trustworthy people. you guys already remade Ruo .. move on. I don't even understand why Jenn and Athian are even still trying to make you guys happy ... more power to em. and the other thing ... chippo said when we merged he logged on to having like 40 new people ... guild holds 120 and it was full at the time of voting ... so there was 80 people in Ruo before the name change so how was Ruo out voted??? they even gave it an extra couple days after voting was suppose to be said and done just to make sure no one was missed. chippo writes this like it's his life story or something, and if it is ... lol ... give me a break! KILL THE FOCKING THREAD ALREADY AND STOP CRYING LIKE A I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥I love you >.<♥!

-Scarlet

this man is a genius

[Lann]

icecreamman where have u been

[Chippo]

With the amount of stress I am/was going through, last thing I wanted is someone else adding to it. I did it I wont deny it. But then again I also felt they where probably the angriest with me with how things turned out and did not feel like I was much of a friend to them. So yes I took them off.

You want to talk about stress? The last thing I ever needed was stressing over a game. As the days pass, your piles of excuses just baffle me... Let's leave it at that and let the readers fit the pieces together.

[SilentM]

Ok and now to offer my actual two cents about all this considering the people in Ruo have always been close to me.

1. Though this thread does not tell me the entire story of the guild, I do know that when guilds merge, change names, change leadership, things are bound to go awry at some point.

2. Athian was a guild member of mine for quite some time, thus at some point in our Cabal history we were good friends. However, there was always a dark cloud looming over that friendship of which I will not go into. One day, the bridge was burned to where Ath blocked and deleted me both in game and on msn regardless of the fact that we had been good friends for quite some time.
This was the long standing norm until out of the blue, Ath apologized to me, seemingly turning a new leaf. Since then it has become water under the bridge, and I have given Ath the benefit of the doubt that some of his little personality quirks were ironed out.

3. Reading this thread, I have concluded that while people do change, there are some things that never will. I said before, that being Ath's "subordinate" would be too awkward. Having been his guild leader and close friend, I know Ath's little quirks. While a newly merged guild with a newly picked guild leader seemed like roses and sunshine at first, I knew there had to be more than meets the eye.
What people don't understand is that handling a guild, especially a big guild is not easy, and if you have personality quirks that don't exactly work with others, then being a guild leader is not exactly the best position for you to take. Remember that dealing with a guild is dealing with people, not lifeless computers on a game.
Anyway, knowing Ath, I know he can be stubborn, I know he has some anti-social tendencies, and I know at some point, he will decide it is better to block and delete people than to deal with their complaints, arguments, and negativity. Not having dealt with such a large group of different people, and not having been a guild leader for quite some time, I believe Ath dealt with problems the best way he knew how. Which as it seems by the posters in this thread, wasn't exactly the best solution for the guild situation.

4. Other than the obvious problems of a different mixture of people being added into a guild that was used to being small, it looks like problems in the hierarchy caused a major division. From what I gather it looks like there is or was a hierarchy of three: Leader, Co-lead, and Officers, just like in Subversion. Give this hierarchy to the wrong people and give them the wrong permissions, and things could go sour really fast. A hierarchy should never have too much power or too little power, but just the right amount.
a. These are my notes to Ath, so that he will hopefully have less problems. Never give anyone except Leader and Co-leader(s) kicking ability. Kicking someone simply for any little nonsense is ridiculous. Giving others kicking ability simply because the lead and/or leaders cannot is also ridiculous. If so many people are getting kicked at once, then it means either too many of the wrong people were invited, or someone is not doing their job properly.
I only kicked under extreme circumstances because I always tried to keep the peace within the guild FIRST. People won't always get along with each other all the time, but that's no reason to go separate ways or to slam the "ban hammer" right away. Settle the petty arguments and differences and create a better atmosphere overall.

b. This is also why I kept a relatively small guild. The more people in the guild, the less control there will be and the less harmony, unless you know how to handle the change. I had very strict invite requirements, and the people with invite rights had to uphold those requirements. I never liked the idea of invite whoever you want now, and let someone else deal with the problem later. It lowers the guild morale of veteran members.

c. Speaking of veterans, this is a lesson I learned from having had a guild for so long. Never hang your veteran guild members out to dry. They are the core, they are the ones that have stuck by the guild's side and they are the reason why the guild still exists. Hang them out to dry, and they will not be happy. They have every right to complain and their vote should count more than that of new members, merged in or not.

d. A merger is a difficult thing to handle, and it has to be made under the right terms. Everyone needs to be under agreement about it, and it cannot happen under shady circumstances or there will be drama surrounding it. The biggest problem about a merger is the new leadership that merges into the guild. Both leaders need to be in agreement about rules, and both former and new guild members need to know and abide by them. Like I said before, kicking doesn't solve the problem. Kicking is a last resort or a means of getting rid of the trash that should have never been in the guild in the first place. As a guild leader you HAVE to learn to be a mediator/babysitter to these "kids" running amok or else the guild will burn to the ground.


TL;DR version: What it boils down to is that Ruo was missing leadership, and in an attempt to keep the guild going, leadership was given to anyone that stepped up to the plate. Despite his best efforts, Ath was not ready to handle the sh1tstorm that was coming.
My recommendation: Ath AND the rogue members get their shi- together and either offer a fresh new start, or a get together of ALL the parties involved to work out some type of compromise.
However, I think with the state of the guild, the newly formed Ruo is better off remaining a separate entity if they want to keep their namesake and their "traditional values." Negotiating doesn't seem all too possible with the powers at work in Desolation.

[Milk]

that was more than 2cents.. and.... you might need a tl;dr tl;dr version

[SilentM]

that was more than 2cents.. and.... you might need a tl;dr tl;dr version

LOL you're right it was, oops. Also if people cant read my TL;DR version then too bad for them!
I specifically didn't make my post purple so that it wasn't just a big wall of bright purple blindness.

[Shinji]

I keep the 2cents k