Learn2Bm2

[iSeeYou123]

spur isnt lasthour...
lasthour is another eu player that knows 5 times about this game than me

i never said spur was lasthour fail ass

[chickenpotpie]

spur isnt lasthour...
lasthour is another eu player that knows 5 times about this game than u

is that why spur can do the thing he does in game, while lasthour writes paragraphs?

[WIpwns]

i never said spur was lasthour fail ass

u said
"spur shut up... i dont want to see any of ur essays"
then u edited it to
"Spur just shut u up Lasthour...i bet Lasthour is writing rough draft to get back at Spur"

obvious troll is obvious
learn2english be4 u post please

[LastHour]

I'm going to play devils-advocate against my better judgment and try to justify your 20 edc/sc anyway to save you some dignity here since you seem quite proud. Wiz is a traditionally a weak PvP char for reasons we all know, the biggest concern of which is low hp. In most TG cases and especially without the old bringer system, it doesn't take much to down a wiz or get them to run to heal. People don't typically let you sit back and DPS combo whether bm2, bm1, aura or w/e. That being said, you may only get off a single string of attacks before a mob chops off your hp in an instant or a hard hitting FS finisher halves your hp. If your only going to get off only a single string of attacks, they may as well hit as hard as they can. The cool doesn't matter since almost regardless of level they will all be cooled again by the time you heal and get back to the combat zone. Also for PvP you only ever get off a single string of attacks [against end-game opponents] and will probably never reuse a even 12 edc in a single PvP match. So for the avid pvper/TGer, it may be beneficial to go with high skill levels, its largely a judgment call on the average time you can spend fighting before running to heal [varies from player to player based on how other players KOS them, their gear, titles, etc]

Maybe instead of trying to backtrack and fail your defense of the pve bm2 argument you could've mentioned this, which places the whole bm2 argument up to pve or pvp preference. Anyone can go back unless you've edited it out already of how you've backtracked several times with lances, then cannons, etc. Know when to call it quits.

Beat you to the punch on that one spur, believe it or not I have in game experience too. I already tried to justify your level 20 skills and said the exact same thing you did on it at the end of your last post. Instead of using that though like I said, you just can't admit you were wrong and refuse to accept the facts so you continue to get slammed on your math and claims of max DPS. Now I'll post evidence as to why you failed to prove you also achieve maximum dps [seriously, admit your mistake here and move on] I took your bm2 build and it doesn't cycle as cleanly as you stated, and in fact bm2 doesn't cycle at all under auto attack [among all skills]. The lvl 20s skills cycle but everything after changes, and in the lower skill build the first 3 skills don't even repeat in order every time you use the first. This is the actual in game testing of using one of my bm2 builds with your stats [1420 m. atk 63 amp in bm2+aura roughly] against your bm2 build. I recorded videos and wrote down every cast that was used over 100 skills [one 90 second BM] The lower level skill got off 2 more casts actually so to make it fair I did take the last two out, putting both at 100 skill uses to get their frequency.

Lower level skills [The ( ) are the power of each skill]:
12 EDC (4017.6) - 13
12 SC (4095.6) - 10
18 meteorite (4216.1) - 9
15 AF (3816.4) - 10
20 Light C.(3854.2) - 12
20 Stone C. (3791.9) - 12
20 Hail Storm (3826.1)- 10
19 Vacuum (3649.6) - 9
20 Fire C. (3676.3) - 8
20 Aqua C. (3668.1) - 7
Total power [number in ( ) when using a skill] - 387241.4
http://img339.imageshack.us/f/wizbm2.jpg/

All Level 20 skills:
20 sc (4423.6) - 6
20 meteor (4363.1) - 6
20 edc (4333.6) - 6
20 AF (4041.4) - 7
20 Light (3854.2) - 11
20 Hail (3826.1) - 10
20 Stone (3791.9) - 11
20 Fire C (3676.3) - 11
20 Aqua C (3668.1) - 9
20 Terra L (3607.5) - 9
20 Fire L (3494.3) - 7
20 Aqua L (3481.4) - 5
20 Freeze L (3369.5) - 2
Total Power: 383905.5
http://img28.imageshack.us/f/wizbm22.jpg/

Obviously yours were in the correct power order since mines not meant for quite your stats, so correcting it would increase the difference of 3335.9 power. Obviously this sounds like an insanely small difference that can be ignored, however this is power, not damage. I left it at its basic terms since that seems to be all you understand. Regardless of your arguments, with your own stats, your not even achieving max power (Sad with all level 20 skills isn't it?). Power is not damage nor DPS like I said, keep in mind all those extra EDC/SC/Meteors are going to be critting a lot harder than the skills you're stuck using.

*If I were bother to convert this into total damage the difference would probably be around 25k damage, which definitely can be a difference maker in a BM. This is only 1 BM, and it would add up in the course of a dungeon run or boss fight requiring multiple BMs. This is because power is only the first factor of determining damage, foregoing frequency of high level skills means all that critical damage you have makes you suffer more because of the loss of using lvl 20 cannons to GM/Comp/Trans. You said yourself EDC can be like 8k + a 4k cannon or you can go lower level skills for more 5k+6k type stuff. Well turns out, your going to be looking at 4k + 4k a lot more often and pass up the opportunity of the 5k + 6k and above range more often.*

Conclusion: Your level 20 skill build ends up spending 79% of its time [6 SC + 6 Meteor + 6 EDC = 21/100] fighting in low to mid power ranges while the lower level skill spends much more time [only 68% at lower-mid ranges] fighting at higher power ranges. In this, you fail to achieve maximum power output, total damage, and average DPS. DPS is made from frequency, damage and time, which the level 20 skills lack [frequency].

Perhaps if you spent as much time paying attention in school as you did in TG, you might've learned something or defended yourself better here.

@Iseeyou: Maybe if you thought for yourself more often instead of letting spur do it for you, then you wouldn't have to wait for him to post bad arguments to try and look cool. Also, just because I decided to watch some college football instead of debate on the forums doesn't mean I was owned.

[Havoc]

@Iseeyou: Maybe if you thought for yourself more often instead of letting spur do it for you, then you wouldn't have to wait for him to post bad arguments to try and look cool. Also, just because I decided to watch some college football instead of debate on the forums doesn't mean I was owned.

amen to that, there were good games today. florida was shown how overrated they are, and oregon game was real fun to watch.

[Matrimoney]

Beat you to the punch on that one spur, believe it or not I have in game experience too. I already tried to justify your level 20 skills and said the exact same thing you did on it at the end of your last post. Instead of using that though like I said, you just can't admit you were wrong and refuse to accept the facts so you continue to get slammed on your math and claims of max DPS. Now I'll post evidence as to why you failed to prove you also achieve maximum dps [seriously, admit your mistake here and move on] I took your bm2 build and it doesn't cycle as cleanly as you stated, and in fact bm2 doesn't cycle at all under auto attack [among all skills]. The lvl 20s skills cycle but everything after changes, and in the lower skill build the first 3 skills don't even repeat in order every time you use the first. This is the actual in game testing of using one of my bm2 builds with your stats [1420 m. atk 63 amp in bm2+aura roughly] against your bm2 build. I recorded videos and wrote down every cast that was used over 100 skills [one 90 second BM] The lower level skill got off 2 more casts actually so to make it fair I did take the last two out, putting both at 100 skill uses to get their frequency.

Lower level skills [The ( ) are the power of each skill]:
12 EDC (4017.6) - 13
12 SC (4095.6) - 10
18 meteorite (4216.1) - 9
15 AF (3816.4) - 10
20 Light C.(3854.2) - 12
20 Stone C. (3791.9) - 12
20 Hail Storm (3826.1)- 10
19 Vacuum (3649.6) - 9
20 Fire C. (3676.3) - 8
20 Aqua C. (3668.1) - 7
Total power [number in ( ) when using a skill] - 387241.4
http://img339.imageshack.us/f/wizbm2.jpg/

All Level 20 skills:
20 sc (4423.6) - 6
20 meteor (4363.1) - 6
20 edc (4333.6) - 6
20 AF (4041.4) - 7
20 Light (3854.2) - 11
20 Hail (3826.1) - 10
20 Stone (3791.9) - 11
20 Fire C (3676.3) - 11
20 Aqua C (3668.1) - 9
20 Terra L (3607.5) - 9
20 Fire L (3494.3) - 7
20 Aqua L (3481.4) - 5
20 Freeze L (3369.5) - 2
Total Power: 383905.5
http://img28.imageshack.us/f/wizbm22.jpg/

Obviously yours were in the correct power order since mines not meant for quite your stats, so correcting it would increase the difference of 3335.9 power. Obviously this sounds like an insanely small difference that can be ignored, however this is power, not damage. I left it at its basic terms since that seems to be all you understand. Regardless of your arguments, with your own stats, your not even achieving max power (Sad with all level 20 skills isn't it?). Power is not damage nor DPS like I said, keep in mind all those extra EDC/SC/Meteors are going to be critting a lot harder than the skills you're stuck using.

*If I were bother to convert this into total damage the difference would probably be around 25k damage, which definitely can be a difference maker in a BM. This is only 1 BM, and it would add up in the course of a dungeon run or boss fight requiring multiple BMs. This is because power is only the first factor of determining damage, foregoing frequency of high level skills means all that critical damage you have makes you suffer more because of the loss of using lvl 20 cannons to GM/Comp/Trans. You said yourself EDC can be like 8k + a 4k cannon or you can go lower level skills for more 5k+6k type stuff. Well turns out, your going to be looking at 4k + 4k a lot more often and pass up the opportunity of the 5k + 6k and above range more often.*

Conclusion: Your level 20 skill build ends up spending 79% of its time [6 SC + 6 Meteor + 6 EDC = 21/100] fighting in low to mid power ranges while the lower level skill spends much more time [only 68% at lower-mid ranges] fighting at higher power ranges. In this, you fail to achieve maximum power output, total damage, and average DPS. DPS is made from frequency, damage and time, which the level 20 skills lack [frequency].

Perhaps if you spent as much time paying attention in school as you did in TG, you might've learned something or defended yourself better here.

@Iseeyou: Maybe if you thought for yourself more often instead of letting spur do it for you, then you wouldn't have to wait for him to post bad arguments to try and look cool. Also, just because I decided to watch some college football instead of debate on the forums doesn't mean I was owned.

Checkmate Spur.

He can't wrap his head around the concept you're throwing at him, trust me....been there done that, the kids stubborn and won't ever admit defeat, even when up against solid evidence.

[Spur]

Lower level skills [The ( ) are the power of each skill]:
12 EDC (4017.6) - 13
12 SC (4095.6) - 10
18 meteorite (4216.1) - 9
15 AF (3816.4) - 10
20 Light C.(3854.2) - 12
20 Stone C. (3791.9) - 12
20 Hail Storm (3826.1)- 10
19 Vacuum (3649.6) - 9
20 Fire C. (3676.3) - 8
20 Aqua C. (3668.1) - 7
Total power [number in ( ) when using a skill] - 387241.4

All Level 20 skills:
20 sc (4423.6) - 6
20 meteor (4363.1) - 6
20 edc (4333.6) - 6
20 AF (4041.4) - 7
20 Light (3854.2) - 11
20 Hail (3826.1) - 10
20 Stone (3791.9) - 11
20 Fire C (3676.3) - 11
20 Aqua C (3668.1) - 9
20 Terra L (3607.5) - 9
20 Fire L (3494.3) - 7
20 Aqua L (3481.4) - 5
20 Freeze L (3369.5) - 2
Total Power: 383905.5


Perhaps if you spent as much time paying attention in school as you did in TG, you might've learned something or defended yourself better here.

i dont need to know how to defend myself as long as im right. u went thru all that trouble to beat it by 3k. i stated so many times i only have 12 skills in my bm2 bar, where do u get freezing lance from? i also went and tested a full bm2 and lightning cannon was cast 12 times not 11. from that 1 skill alone not even counting the other time freezing lance was used that already more than made up the 3k go back to math class.

[Romp]

hi

i > than u

[LastHour]

i dont need to know how to defend myself as long as im right. u went thru all that trouble to beat it by 3k. i stated so many times i only have 12 skills in my bm2 bar, where do u get freezing lance from? i also went and tested a full bm2 and lightning cannon was cast 12 times not 11. from that 1 skill alone not even counting the other time freezing lance was used that already more than made up the 3k go back to math class.

I had to use 13 instead of 12 because using auto attack your bm2 build did not hold up. Twice there was an instant where lightning C was solo casted without a skill, using the 12 skills you gave me, so I went to the next skill and paired it up with LC. If your not auto attacking then your not attacking as fast as possible. If you want me to go and redo the skills for your bm2 build, show me a vid on a dummy of you auto attacking for an entire bm2 so maybe we can continue to below.

I also said I didn't even bother putting my bm2 build in the proper order to accomodate your stats, fixing the order alone would boost mine much farther than another LC use, actually creating a bigger difference than before. I didn't even have to use the proper order [yours were in perfect order since you know your stats] to beat it in the original test. I could gain possibly another 3k alone just by fixing the order.

Yet again you forget the basic principles applied to this argument. The gain from using LC 12 times instead of 11 is not the power of the skill, it is the difference in power from the skill it would replace, maybe earning you up to 1000 from both uses FL was used. So if we fix this, then maybe I gain 3k more power and you gain 1k, so gz on that.

I kept it in power so hopefully you could understand since that is all you ever seem to look for. As I said, power is not damage. I'd be using higher damage skills more often making better use of my critical damage than using lower level skills.

[Spur]

I had to use 13 instead of 12 because using auto attack your bm2 build did not hold up. Twice there was an instant where lightning C was solo casted without a skill, using the 12 skills you gave me, so I went to the next skill and paired it up with LC. If your not auto attacking then your not attacking as fast as possible. If you want me to go and redo the skills for your bm2 build, show me a vid on a dummy of you auto attacking for an entire bm2 so maybe we can continue to below.

I also said I didn't even bother putting my bm2 build in the proper order to accomodate your stats, fixing the order alone would boost mine much farther than another LC use, actually creating a bigger difference than before. I didn't even have to use the proper order [yours were in perfect order since you know your stats] to beat it in the original test. I could gain possibly another 3k alone just by fixing the order.

Yet again you forget the basic principles applied to this argument. The gain from using LC 12 times instead of 11 is not the power of the skill, it is the difference in power from the skill it would replace, maybe earning you up to 1000 from both uses FL was used. So if we fix this, then maybe I gain 3k more power and you gain 1k, so gz on that.

I kept it in power so hopefully you could understand since that is all you ever seem to look for. As I said, power is not damage. I'd be using higher damage skills more often making better use of my critical damage than using lower level skills.

do a full calculation then come back. i dont wanna hear ure theories... just by the first list of spells i can already tell ure biased. 12 lcs on ures but 11 lcs on mine yet they got the same cooldown. u got vacuum sneaked in on ures yet i dont have vacuum at all. rearrange it all u like and put plumas def to the test.

rate is 54
cd is 175

u guys have no idea how much dmg ure losing from not maxing out met and edc. these are 2 of ure highest dps skill in general with a big aoe by not maxing them ure losing another 300damage every 14sec in combo per mob it hits. it doesnt take a math genius to realize maxing these 2 are common sense for a wiz. stunlock can be ure only excuse, dps is not.