Learn2Bm2

[Spur]

sry but once u posted that chart i no longer needed to compare our full bm2 bar. all i need is to prove u have a flaw in it therefor it can no longer be fully correct.

lvl 9 edc 17 casts = 59738
lvl 20 edc 7 casts = 29988
difference 29750 and 10 casts = 2975avg
10 skills of 3k = 3000avg
so are u saying lvl 20 edc > lvl 9 edc?

all i need u to do is tell me is this correct or not. if it is which i do not doubt one bit it proves a lvl 20 edc > than ure lvl 9 edc in a full bm2 bar. im not even talking about sc anymore cause ure edc is already flawed.

[Romp]

Is there anything that spur cant do PVE? He can solo ca5 solo pluma with his bars. And he Likes to go to war and PvP. What is the point of lower ur skills for increase of BM2 when he can do everything already. Mind aswell make ur skills max for PvP/War.

[RatzaTM]

sry but once u posted that chart i no longer needed to compare our full bm2 bar. all i need is to prove u have a flaw in it therefor it can no longer be fully correct.

lvl 9 edc 17 casts = 59738
lvl 20 edc 7 casts = 29988
difference 29750 and 10 casts = 2975avg
10 skills of 3k = 3000avg
so are u saying lvl 20 edc > lvl 9 edc?

all i need u to do is tell me is this correct or not. if it is which i do not doubt one bit it proves a lvl 20 edc > than ure lvl 9 edc in a full bm2 bar. im not even talking about sc anymore cause ure edc is already flawed.

EDC is not flawed my friend, you just fail to understand a certain thing.

If I compare my 17 EDC with your 7 EDC + Lowest skills, I am correct (2 Chain + 8 Lance)
If I compare my 17 EDC with your 7 EDC + Strongest fillers, you are correct (as shown above)

The problem is ... you cannot cast the same strong fillers, due to cooldown, which means that your 10 fillers will be better than my 10 EDC, for those 10 casts, for the other 10 casts, my 10 SC will be better than your fillers (coz they are lances and stuff) and the last 2 fillers that differentiate us, until 100 skills are reached, will be won by you also.

As a grand total though, even if your best 10 fillers surpass my 10 EDC, my BM will deal more damage, because you run out of skills to match my 10 extra SC :P (and don't tell me you cast the same 10 top fillers to match me, because you can't, due to cast time, as I shown in the chart).

For 100 - 78 skills that we don't have in common, (22 skills that differentiate our build damage) I was right when I said my BM > your BM output. For the EDC vs best 10 fillers though, you were right.
Overall, you were wrong, and you still are

What you shown above is just a fraction of the whole difference between our BMs. It's not just 17 EDC @ 9 versus 7 EDC @ 20 + 10 skills, it's 22 skills vs 22 skills, as shown. And that's where you can't keep up with the damage, because I cast 10 SC + 10 EDC + 2 AF while you cast 22 low level skills that can't cover the whole damage of extra lvl 9 comp / gm.

To prove my point to you : Please point out the flaw in my chart regarding your BM strongest skills, flaw which could have been generated by a misplaced cooldown. I'm all ears to explain the chart so you can understand.

@ROMP : He can do anything, but he is not at 100% efficiency :P. The point of lowering your skills is to teach someone who DOESN'T do what Spur does (spam TG) that having lvl 20 skills is wrong. Spur's claim is also wrong, that lvl 20 > lvl 9 in BM2. He could potentially gain 10 - 15% more damage. It's not fair nor correct to say that "Lvl 20 skills are the best in BM" when it was proven otherwise. Level 20 skills fit my Spur playing style, I could've agreed to that, but claiming such bs that lvl 20 > all, hell no.

IMO he should stick to his lvl 20 but not promote it nor encourage it, as I will be here to prove him wrong about his damage output.

@ Spur : Please tell me the flaw of your BM2 bar chart. I am 100% confident that the skills are cast that way. Prove me wrong please or admit you compare only parts of the BM, parts which benefit you (like comparing 17 EDC with 17 EDC + Fillers instead of 100 skills vs 100 skills, or at least 22 differential skills vs 22 differential skills).

[Spur]

EDC is not flawed my friend, you just fail to understand a certain thing.

If I compare my 17 EDC with your 7 EDC + Lowest skills, I am correct (2 Chain + 8 Lance)
If I compare my 17 EDC with your 7 EDC + Strongest fillers, you are correct (as shown above)

The problem is ... you cannot cast the same strong fillers, due to cooldown, which means that your 10 fillers will be better than my 10 EDC, for those 10 casts, for the other 10 casts, my 10 SC will be better than your fillers (coz they are lances and stuff) and the last 2 fillers that differentiate us, until 100 skills are reached, will be won by you also.

As a grand total though, even if your best 10 fillers surpass my 10 EDC, my BM will deal more damage, because you run out of skills to match my 10 extra SC :P (and don't tell me you cast the same 10 top fillers to match me, because you can't, due to cast time, as I shown in the chart).

For 100 - 78 skills that we don't have in common, (22 skills that differentiate our build damage) I was right when I said my BM > your BM output. For the EDC vs best 10 fillers though, you were right.
Overall, you were wrong, and you still are

What you shown above is just a fraction of the whole difference between our BMs. It's not just 17 EDC @ 9 versus 7 EDC @ 20 + 10 skills, it's 22 skills vs 22 skills, as shown. And that's where you can't keep up with the damage, because I cast 10 SC + 10 EDC + 2 AF while you cast 22 low level skills that can't cover the whole damage of extra lvl 9 comp / gm.

again... im not talking about sc till u prove edc correct. we used an avg for everything so far so wat makes the diff here? i used the avg of the lower skills and it came to 3k which is greater than ure edc difference. ure saying edc isnt flawed but im showing u right here that it is

[RatzaTM]

again... im not talking about sc till u prove edc correct. we used an avg for everything so far so wat makes the diff here? i used the avg of the lower skills and it came to 3k which is greater than ure edc difference. ure saying edc isnt flawed but im showing u right here that it is

EDC is correct as long as you choose best 10 fillers to compare with my 17 EDC.
But the BM is not solely about EDC, nor can you multiply the EDC results to cover the whole BM.

You can't just say "because 10 EDC + 10 fillers are better than your 20 EDC, it will be the same for the other 80 pairs of skills". Look at how the chart shows what you cast, when you cast it, and how much damage it does.

Are you that freakin' r-tarded or do I have to point out the damage output for each pair of cast skills so that you understand that you're comparing fractions of your BM (17 skills) which benefit you, and leave out the rest of the skills which benefit my claims (83 skills).

You can't just multiply the results of 17 compared skills by 5 and say that it's a valid claim for the whole BM duration. Are you mentally challenged or what's your problem ?

YOUR 7 EDC @ 20 + 10 BEST FILLERS THAT YOU CAN CAST AT THAT TIME ARE BETTER THAN MY 17 EDC @ 9, YET EVEN SO, YOUR TOTAL DAMAGE OUTPUT IS LOWER DUE TO MY HIGHER RANKED SPAMMED SKILLS COMPARED TO YOUR LAME CANNONS. You wanna know why ? Because you can't cast the same skills all over again due to your immense cooldown. My additional 22 skills (10 edc + 10 sc + 2 af) totally outdamage your additional 22 skills. All other 78 skills deal the same amount of damage as as sum, so the difference comes from these 22 vs 22, not 17 edc vs 7 edc + 10 fillers.

Can you read the above 20 times please ? You were 33% correct, let's say, but the other 67% proves me right, and in the end, makes me right overall.
Your BM will be better for 10 seconds only, as long as those 7 EDC + 10 fillers are cast. The other 75 seconds, my build will regain lost damage and outdamage your BM.

With the risk of repeating myself : For the duration of the 17 skills (9 pairs of skills, 9 x 1.7 = 15.3 seconds) your damage output will be higher than mine. For the other 85 - 15.3 seconds, my BM2 will catch-up and SURPASS your damage output, due to the other skills that I cast and you cannot (due to higher cooldowns)

[Spur]

EDC is correct as long as you choose best 10 fillers to compare with my 17 EDC.
But the BM is not solely about EDC, nor can you multiply the EDC results to cover the whole BM.

You can't just say "because 10 EDC + 10 fillers are better than your 20 EDC, it will be the same for the other 80 pairs of skills". Look at how the chart shows what you cast, when you cast it, and how much damage it does.

Are you that freakin' r-tarded or do I have to point out the damage output for each pair of cast skills so that you understand that you're comparing fractions of your BM (17 skills) which benefit you, and leave out the rest of the skills which benefit my claims (83 skills).

You can't just multiply the results of 17 compared skills by 5 and say that it's a valid claim for the whole BM duration. Are you mentally challenged or what's your problem ?

YOUR 7 EDC @ 20 + 10 BEST FILLERS THAT YOU CAN CAST AT THAT TIME ARE BETTER THAN MY 17 EDC @ 9, YET EVEN SO, YOUR TOTAL DAMAGE OUTPUT IS LOWER DUE TO MY HIGHER RANKED SPAMMED SKILLS COMPARED TO YOUR LAME CANNONS.

Can you read the above 20 times please ? You were 33% correct, let's say, but the other 67% proves me right, and in the end, makes me right overall.
Your BM will be better for 10 seconds only, as long as those 7 EDC + 10 fillers are cast. The other 75 seconds, my build will regain lost damage and outdamage your BM.

With the risk of repeating myself : For the duration of the 17 skills (9 pairs of skills, 9 x 1.7 = 15.3 seconds) your damage output will be higher than mine. For the other 85 - 15.3 seconds, my BM2 will catch-up and SURPASS your damage output, due to the other skills that I cast and you cannot (due to higher cooldowns)

wow after 2 pages of this u still dont get it.

lvl 9 edc 17 casts = 59738
lvl 20 edc 7 casts = 29988
difference 29750 and 10 casts = 2975avg
10 skills of 3k = 3000avg
20 edc > lvl 9 edc

no matter how u prove it as long as this remains true a lvl 20edc > lvl 9edc. how u gain the extra dmg from either sc or ure other skill will not change this fact

[lentil]

Does this only apply to bm2? Because you can cast 3 lances/cannon in combo instead of 1 sc through mobs. The cast time of sc and edc is the same as lance/cannon in bm2 or no?

[RatzaTM]

wow after 2 pages of this u still dont get it.

lvl 9 edc 17 casts = 59738
lvl 20 edc 7 casts = 29988
difference 29750 and 10 casts = 2975avg
10 skills of 3k = 3000avg
20 edc > lvl 9 edc

no matter how u prove it as long as this remains true a lvl 20edc > lvl 9edc. how u gain the extra dmg from either sc or ure other skill will not change this fact

Actually, you don't get it : 7 x lvl 20 EDC + 10 best lvl 20 fillers > 17 x lvl 9 EDC, by 400 damage.
LEVEL 20 EDC IS NOT BETTER THAN LVL 9 EDC, LEVEL 20 EDC NEEDS FILLERS TO SURPASS LEVEL 9 EDC DAMAGE OUTPUT. Even your fu.cking comparison is incomplete. 20 EDC < 9 EDC. 20 EDC + fillers > 9 EDC. Get it, Sherlock ?

17 EDC or 7 EDC + 10 fillers are cast in the same amount of time : 9 x 1.7 seconds (18 skills) = 15.3 seconds, BUT WE ARE NOT COMPARING THE ONLY 15.3 SECONDS OF A BM WHICH FAVOR YOUR BUILD, WE ARE COMPARING THE WHOLE 85 SECONDS OF IT, WHERE YOUR BUILD LOSES DAMAGE OVER TIME.

YOUR BM DAMAGE WILL BE HIGHER FOR 15 SECONDS ONLY !!!!!!!! As long as the 7 EDC + 10 fillers are cast. For the remaining BM, you won't be able to cast any other EDC nor any other top filler, all your casts are used, and my BM will catch up to yours and SURPASS your damage output. You would need 7 EDC + 10 fillers each 15 seconds to outdamage me by 400 points each 15.3 seconds, which is impossible, because you get to cast 7 EDC YOUR WHOLE FREAKIN BM.

@lentil : Talking about BM2 only, indeed.
@Spur : Do you mind me asking how old are you ? Does anyone know how old you are ? Because I have a feeling I'm chatting with a spoiled brat that won't use his brains. I pray to God you're not more than 14, otherwise I should be feeling sorry for your family and closest folks for having to deal with such a person.

[Spur]

Actually, you don't get it : 7 x lvl 20 EDC + 10 best lvl 20 fillers > 17 x lvl 9 EDC, by 400 damage.
LEVEL 20 EDC IS NOT BETTER THAN LVL 9 EDC, LEVEL 20 EDC NEEDS FILLERS TO SURPASS LEVEL 9 EDC DAMAGE OUTPUT. Even your fu.cking comparison is incomplete. 20 EDC < 9 EDC. 20 EDC + fillers > 9 EDC. Get it, Sherlock ?

17 EDC or 7 EDC + 10 fillers are cast in the same amount of time : 9 x 1.7 seconds (18 skills) = 15.3 seconds.

YOUR BM DAMAGE WILL BE HIGHER FOR 15 SECONDS ONLY !!!!!!!! As long as the 7 EDC + 10 fillers are cast. For the remaining BM, you won't be able to cast any other EDC nor any other top filler, all your casts are used, and my BM will catch up to yours and SURPASS your damage output. You would need 7 EDC + 10 fillers each 15 seconds to outdamage me by 400 points each 15.3 seconds, which is impossible, because you get to cast 7 EDC YOUR WHOLE FREAKIN BM.

@lentil : Talking about BM2 only, indeed.

wow... u still dont get the math
ure 17edcs are paired with 17cannons/lances
my 7edcs will be paired with 7cannons/lances and while ure 10edcs are casted im getting another 10cannon/lances + its pair of 10cannons/lances
as u notice it makes absolutely no difference 17cannon/lances cancel each other out in damage therefore its left with
17edc vs 7edc + 10cannons/lances
i didnt even think i needed to explain it that clearly.. u got no more edcs to cast therefore ure edc dps will not be increasing no matter how long ure bm2 lasts

[RatzaTM]

wow... u still dont get the math
ure 17edcs are paired with 17cannons/lances
my 7edcs will be paired with 7cannons/lances and while ure 10edcs are casted im getting another 10cannon/lances + its pair of 10cannons/lances
as u notice it makes absolutely no difference 17cannon/lances cancel each other out in damage therefore its left with
17edc vs 7edc + 10cannons/lances
i didnt even think i needed to explain it that clearly.. u got no more edcs to cast therefore ure edc dps will not be increasing no matter how long ure bm2 lasts

My 17 EDC could be paired with 17 SC which deal more damage than your lances/cannons. Did you ever think about that ?
I got no more EDCs to cast indeed after these 17, but I have more SC to compensate for that, leading to a higher damage output IN THE FREAKIN END !!!!!

Whereas in a whole BM2 you cast 6 SC + 7 EDC + 7 AF + 12 Hail + 49 Cannons + 9 Vacuum + 10 other skills, I get to cast 17 SC + 17 EDC + 8 AF + 12 Hail + 48 cannons + 8 Vacuum.

You see the difference now ? Why OVERALL (not specifically EDC vs EDC) my BM bar is better ? Because I cast 34 Comp / GM + 48 cannons, while you cast 13 Comp / GM + 49 cannons. These 30 extra GM / Comp make up for any damage you do with skills other than the cannons and GM/Comp (which were already counted in the comparison, and as such are already cast, all of them)