The "No Nation" minority

[Sprite]

So, seeing as no nation has honor titles as well, I think it would be cool if more people could enjoy it more having no nation.

Before I go into my suggestion I'll list some pros/ cons of being no nation

Pros:
Can go into a grinding spot and pk anyone even in non pk channels
Able to fight anyone in ch 20

Cons:
Can't go to nation war
Difficult to farm honor

So basically the cons of being no nation is the biggest issue why nobody ever goes no nation.
But... what if there was a way to remedy that and make the game more fun at the same time?

This is my suggestion, make "no nation" (going to call it NN from now on) able to go to war as a third party.
What does this mean?
This means the NN people will be able to go to war and be able to run havoc among the current proc/ capella people. They will show up in war with their orange name and let's say spawn at either omega, center, or alpha and just run around the map killing proc/ caps. The no nation goal is to stop proc/ caps from taking bases and what not.
Rules:
> NN cannot attack guards/ gates or take bases
> NN will gain points and wexp the same as a regular player
> NN res timers are 20 seconds at either omega, center, or alpha (random)
> NN cannot build portable towers
> NN cannot purchase portable towers
> The number of NN allowed in will be the amount of people on the nation with the least amount in divided by 2.
[Example: Proc has 16 people in while cap has 20 people in. The number of NN allowed in is 8]
> NN winnings are based on how many kills the player gets based on the tier of war. [Example: In the 79 war, a no nation would only get 10k a kill, while in the 190 war a no nation would get 75k a kill)
> NN WILL have a bringer based solely on the amount of kills

I think this would be a pretty cool system seeing how no nation plays a nonfactor right now in this game. It would also be cool to see who the NN faction would side with (messing with proc or cap).

Any thoughts?

[blazingturd]

yes this would be fun

[Berserk_Fury]

Honestly gaining honor with no nation isn't even that hard anymore (at least up to hr 12-13) if you just do plates of glory from t-point shop for dungeons like aos1, aos2, ct2.

[Hash]

inb4 xi goes no nation and has perm bringer

[SantaClaus]

So, seeing as no nation has honor titles as well, I think it would be cool if more people could enjoy it more having no nation.

Before I go into my suggestion I'll list some pros/ cons of being no nation

Pros:
Can go into a grinding spot and pk anyone even in non pk channels
Able to fight anyone in ch 20

Cons:
Can't go to nation war
Difficult to farm honor

So basically the cons of being no nation is the biggest issue why nobody ever goes no nation.
But... what if there was a way to remedy that and make the game more fun at the same time?

This is my suggestion, make "no nation" (going to call it NN from now on) able to go to war as a third party.
What does this mean?
This means the NN people will be able to go to war and be able to run havoc among the current proc/ capella people. They will show up in war with their orange name and let's say spawn at either omega, center, or alpha and just run around the map killing proc/ caps. The no nation goal is to stop proc/ caps from taking bases and what not.
Rules:
> NN cannot attack guards/ gates or take bases
> NN will gain points and wexp the same as a regular player
> NN res timers are 20 seconds at either omega, center, or alpha (random)
> NN cannot build portable towers
> NN cannot purchase portable towers
> The number of NN allowed in will be the amount of people on the nation with the least amount in divided by 2.
[Example: Proc has 16 people in while cap has 20 people in. The number of NN allowed in is 8]
> NN winnings are based on how many kills the player gets based on the tier of war. [Example: In the 79 war, a no nation would only get 10k a kill, while in the 190 war a no nation would get 75k a kill)
> NN WILL have a bringer based solely on the amount of kills

I think this would be a pretty cool system seeing how no nation plays a nonfactor right now in this game. It would also be cool to see who the NN faction would side with (messing with proc or cap).

Any thoughts?
this idea to get bringer and have fun in ch20 killing every?

[IAmEvil]

if this happens im going NN omg it would be sooo fun

[SantaClaus]

if this happens im going NN omg it would be sooo fun
we can have tea parties in bi

[NiteFalcon]

I would rather have a 3rd nation than any incentives for being no nation

[SantaClaus]

we can make have auto santacostumes and be my elves

[truely false]

I have long wondered what it would be like if Nuetrals were allowed to NW. In my pondering of this kind of war I never thought of Nuetrals as a random factor to sabotage other nations. I always put Nuetrals at an even footing with the other two nations meaning Nuetrals would have thier own base to defend as well as capturing S,M and L bases. Also allowing them to have a chance at winning bonus. But, I always came to realize that the game play was designed for two factions Procyon and Capella in this case. This is why in earlier episodes obtaining high honor was difficult for Nuetrals also making it hard to well gear a Nuetral with respect to accessories which in turn forced players to choose a nation.

With that said, I have to say Xi's vision of a 3 party war does sound plausible with a few tweeks. For example;
Why not let Nuetrals build thier towers. The towers will hinder both nations and isn't that the idea.
Also how to end the war, currently the war ends when all bases are captured or time runs out but with a third party sabotaging both nations capturing the entire map may no longer be viable. This well make most wars if not all wars play out to thier complete time. This in turn has the potential of making it more difficult to win a war and depending on individual perspective it could enhance or disenchant the fun of warring as well. so maybe shorter times for war could be the solution to this side effect.

As I said these are just examples...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Valdoroth]

Yes, a thought. I remember talking this idea back in 2009 standing in DS (i was like lvl 12x at the time) wondering about this same thing, but never really posted suggestion for it. :D

I agree that they need some sort of method to gain honor. But their kill counters would have to also keep track of both proc and cap kills, However the game is set up that you only get those kills if of opposing nations. Now if the added the additional titles for NN then it'd be fine. But what about the option to become NN after picking one (maybe not bcs then all your HR20's would do that and band together and just slaughter everyone for their 100k Kills titles)?


OR



All NN can go to a Mission Battle like the OLD Tierra Bruto (old PvP styled Team Elimination in CA Map), and just modernize the Wexp gain.

:D Then they get their own style of warring, with ALL the coding except tweaking the nations to enter. That'd be by far the easiest for the devs to create. They should still have all those files archived to draw it from.



I would rather have a 3rd nation than any incentives for being no nation

But that would render some of the storyline's quests obsolete meaning they'd have to alter some of the quests as well. But not a ton.

[alhifnawy3]

ok the idea is great(+1),but the nn ppl choose to have nn because they hate war i don't think that the currently nn ppl will go war but i think proc and caps will switch to nn(it will be fun)

And about the no. of nn ppl that can enter is 2 low don't u think?!i mean 8 vs 36 lol ,it must be equal to the lowest no of procs or caps(e.g 5procs and 7caps,only 5nn ppl can enter <----real no.)

[chainlock]

ok the idea is great(+1),but the nn ppl choose to have nn because they hate war i don't think that the currently nn ppl will go war but i think proc and caps will switch to nn(it will be fun)

And about the no. of nn ppl that can enter is 2 low don't u think?!i mean 8 vs 36 lol ,it must be equal to the lowest no of procs or caps(e.g 5procs and 7caps,only 5nn ppl can enter <----real no.)

I don't hate war and I have 3 nn characters. I just hated bringer shout :)

I think NN should be able to join war to balance out the side with less people and just go to whichever side has less at the time of joining.

[Sprite]

ok the idea is great(+1),but the nn ppl choose to have nn because they hate war i don't think that the currently nn ppl will go war but i think proc and caps will switch to nn(it will be fun)

And about the no. of nn ppl that can enter is 2 low don't u think?!i mean 8 vs 36 lol ,it must be equal to the lowest no of procs or caps(e.g 5procs and 7caps,only 5nn ppl can enter <----real no.)

You're misunderstanding me
If there's 36 procs and 10 caps, the amount of procs that can enter is only 10. Therefore, it would be 10v10v5

If you had a full team of NN going in, each side would be screwed due to the fact they're pretty much facing an entirely different army.



I think NN should be able to join war to balance out the side with less people and just go to whichever side has less at the time of joining.

This could work, though I like the whole NN killing everyone thing more :<
There's only 1 flaw though - everyone who's a wexp junkie would just go NN so they could always get into war without a waitlist and slack off after getting their 30 or whatnot.

[iLatin]

In my m/o "NN" joining NW should just get sent to the side that needs more ppl explaination if theirs 23 procs and 15 caps "NN" would be Sent to Cap....

[chainlock]

You're misunderstanding me
If there's 36 procs and 10 caps, the amount of procs that can enter is only 10. Therefore, it would be 10v10v5

If you had a full team of NN going in, each side would be screwed due to the fact they're pretty much facing an entirely different army.



This could work, though I like the whole NN killing everyone thing more :<
There's only 1 flaw though - everyone who's a wexp junkie would just go NN so they could always get into war without a waitlist and slack off after getting their 30 or whatnot.

I wouldn't really see that as a flaw, because it'll keep both sides even # of players and everyone will still be getting in.

It might piss people off that want to win, but people already do nothing in war anyway. It would also solve the relogging for bm3 that caps can't live without. :)

[Izumiia]

your idea is like WorldvWvW in other games.

[EmmersonLazaro]

NN lobby? o.o

[alhifnawy3]

You're misunderstanding me
If there's 36 procs and 10 caps, the amount of procs that can enter is only 10. Therefore, it would be 10vs10
I think u had misunderstood me...i mean if there 10 procs and 10 caps..10 nn ppl can enter not 5 because it'll be hard to be 20(10 procs and 10 caps) vs 5
which means that all sides will face 20 and in big wars 16 procs and 16 caps for example 8 nn ppl vs 32 caps and procs(lol i would hate that)

U got my point?

[Cathy]

I would rather have a 3rd nation than any incentives for being no nation

If we had a 3rd nation all the hipsters would join it in a heartbeat

[xFaLL3NxAng3L]

imo I think all the NN should have a separate system to gain Wexp and ect

cuz having NN killing CAP and Procs is ehh bleh

NW is supposed to be CAP vs PROC @_@ is the reason they made war in the first place llol
NN would get in the way in war and ppl is gonna get pissed
its gonna imbalance war more than it already is ~_~
when cap and procs are tryna win war

so a seperate system for NN would be better for everyone

[toca4eva1]

this idea to get bringer and have fun in ch20 killing every?

Oh hey Santa! It's that time of year again isn't it =)

[Sprite]

I think u had misunderstood me...i mean if there 10 procs and 10 caps..10 nn ppl can enter not 5 because it'll be hard to be 20(10 procs and 10 caps) vs 5
which means that all sides will face 20 and in big wars 16 procs and 16 caps for example 8 nn ppl vs 32 caps and procs(lol i would hate that)

U got my point?

No, anything more would disrupt the supreme balance of war. The point isn't for NN to have an overwhelming presence, but simply to act as lone warriors who find quality over quantity. If you were to go NN, it should mean that you're confident in your warring abilities to be able to go in by yourself into a team fight or what not against both procs and caps and be able to disrupt fights as well as maybe get out alive. The point isn't to have 20 NN crawling around everywhere steamrolling 1 nation.

Edit: and for the record, of course I didn't understand you. You thought that 16 x 2 was 36. It's 32 bro.



And about the no. of nn ppl that can enter is 2 low don't u think?!i mean 8 vs 36 lol ,it must be equal to the lowest no of procs or caps(e.g 5procs and 7caps,only 5nn ppl can enter <----real no.)



imo I think all the NN should have a separate system to gain Wexp and ect

cuz having NN killing CAP and Procs is ehh bleh

NW is supposed to be CAP vs PROC @_@ is the reason they made war in the first place llol
NN would get in the way in war and ppl is gonna get pissed
its gonna imbalance war more than it already is ~_~
when cap and procs are tryna win war

so a seperate system for NN would be better for everyone

Unmm, that's the whole point of being NN, to act as a third party. And it really wouldn't imbalance anything, hence the lowest number divided by 2 able to enter.

[xFaLL3NxAng3L]

Unmm, that's the whole point of being NN, to act as a third party. And it really wouldn't imbalance anything, hence the lowest number divided by 2 able to enter.
mmk if u say so *shrugs shoulders*

[i sell stuff]

Although it sounds interesting i feel that the main no nations that we have come from when people made chars before quests rewards became so good (the exp). Now they make quest rewards better so that people can lvl up faster and its I think its required to do the nation quest to continue leveling quickly through story quests (i could be wrong I dunno). It seems like (if it forced you to get a nation to continue questing) est is giving you incentive (the high amounts of exp) to choose a nation.

Thats just what i think. But your idea does seem to be interesting XI.

Also i have a question, can you go no nation after choosing a nation? Would the black transmuter help you do that?

[Sprite]

Although it sounds interesting i feel that the main no nations that we have come from when people made chars before quests rewards became so good (the exp). Now they make quest rewards better so that people can lvl up faster and its I think its required to do the nation quest to continue leveling quickly through story quests (i could be wrong I dunno). It seems like (if it forced you to get a nation to continue questing) est is giving you incentive (the high amounts of exp) to choose a nation.

Thats just what i think. But your idea does seem to be interesting XI.

Also i have a question, can you go no nation after choosing a nation? Would the black transmuter help you do that?


I'd say that going NN would be more appealing towards players who already know how to play the game and have experience. As for switching over, all players will only have 1 chance to switch to NN. But if they switch out of NN they can no longer go back.

[Atsunijo]

I think this is a fantastic idea!

[Lute]

How about no.

The majority of people that ARE no nation are bots or hackers that don't want people to know who they are.

The designers clearly don't want no nation to be a "nation" seeing as how they have no way to gain wexp and they can't even go into arcane trance.

I think we should force players at lvl52 to choose a nation or not be able to level any further. This would make it so bots hacking away would hit 52 then stop and be unable to go any further as well.

[star21]

That's a dumb idea... NN going to war lol they're at disadvantages in every way lol can't do anything, why don't you just create 3rd nation and complicate the system even more lol EST already having a hard time with two nations, why would they need to do something like this to f'ed themselves up even more lol

So, seeing as no nation has honor titles as well, I think it would be cool if more people could enjoy it more having no nation.

Before I go into my suggestion I'll list some pros/ cons of being no nation

Pros:
Can go into a grinding spot and pk anyone even in non pk channels
Able to fight anyone in ch 20

Cons:
Can't go to nation war
Difficult to farm honor

So basically the cons of being no nation is the biggest issue why nobody ever goes no nation.
But... what if there was a way to remedy that and make the game more fun at the same time?

This is my suggestion, make "no nation" (going to call it NN from now on) able to go to war as a third party.
What does this mean?
This means the NN people will be able to go to war and be able to run havoc among the current proc/ capella people. They will show up in war with their orange name and let's say spawn at either omega, center, or alpha and just run around the map killing proc/ caps. The no nation goal is to stop proc/ caps from taking bases and what not.
Rules:
> NN cannot attack guards/ gates or take bases
> NN will gain points and wexp the same as a regular player
> NN res timers are 20 seconds at either omega, center, or alpha (random)
> NN cannot build portable towers
> NN cannot purchase portable towers
> The number of NN allowed in will be the amount of people on the nation with the least amount in divided by 2.
[Example: Proc has 16 people in while cap has 20 people in. The number of NN allowed in is 8]
> NN winnings are based on how many kills the player gets based on the tier of war. [Example: In the 79 war, a no nation would only get 10k a kill, while in the 190 war a no nation would get 75k a kill)
> NN WILL have a bringer based solely on the amount of kills

I think this would be a pretty cool system seeing how no nation plays a nonfactor right now in this game. It would also be cool to see who the NN faction would side with (messing with proc or cap).

Any thoughts?

[SantaClaus]

Oh hey Santa! It's that time of year again isn't it =)
yeah its coming

[Sprite]

How about no.

The majority of people that ARE no nation are bots or hackers that don't want people to know who they are.

The designers clearly don't want no nation to be a "nation" seeing as how they have no way to gain wexp and they can't even go into arcane trance.

I think we should force players at lvl52 to choose a nation or not be able to level any further. This would make it so bots hacking away would hit 52 then stop and be unable to go any further as well.

lol, you're not even thinking about the "fun" aspect of the game anymore. You're being narrow minded into the whole "get rid of bots" thing when there's really no difference between a no nation bot or a bot with a nation. Either way, you'd be submitting a help desk ticket with their neutral id number + a screenshot and whatnot which GMs can look into. And if you know their name, so what? You'd be sending in a HD ticket anyways.

No nation isn't a way to get rid of bots, it's a unique part of the game that has its own aspects as well. Why do you think no nation can get up to hr11-20 in the first place? Stop having tunnel vision.

[star21]

This guy idea of control bots is great.

A better way to control bots is to make them work for the game. What EST can do is set a goal for new chars to complete. Example, but it up to EST to determine this.

If you start a new char, the first 10 required quests should be completed in certain # of days before you can start shop or farm or gain EXP. If new char is not active doing quests for first 5 days, then acct should be delete because if you're serious, you would work to lvl up and do required quests. If EST enforced rules for new players then we'll have less bots running around at lv1 or so. But then again, something like this might be hard.


How about no.

The majority of people that ARE no nation are bots or hackers that don't want people to know who they are.

The designers clearly don't want no nation to be a "nation" seeing as how they have no way to gain wexp and they can't even go into arcane trance.

I think we should force players at lvl52 to choose a nation or not be able to level any further. This would make it so bots hacking away would hit 52 then stop and be unable to go any further as well.

[star21]

This way it will also stop ppl from creat mule to sell or alz buyers from laundering alz from mule to their main chars. If deleting their low lvls is too harsh, then EST can locked it until the players sent in a ticket saying it their mules and they have to link a main chars so EST would know it's not some bot trying to release another bots lol

[Lord Kronius]

lol, you're not even thinking about the "fun" aspect of the game anymore. You're being narrow minded into the whole "get rid of bots" thing when there's really no difference between a no nation bot or a bot with a nation. Either way, you'd be submitting a help desk ticket with their neutral id number + a screenshot and whatnot which GMs can look into. And if you know their name, so what? You'd be sending in a HD ticket anyways.

No nation isn't a way to get rid of bots, it's a unique part of the game that has its own aspects as well. Why do you think no nation can get up to hr11-20 in the first place? Stop having tunnel vision.
'
LOL IKR?? who are these people that disagree? zzzzzzzz

[truely false]

When did this thread about Nuetrals joining war turn into a discussion about bots...:p :p :p

Look obviously implementing this idea of Nuetrals joining NW will mean a radical patch or upgrade to the game. So knowing this do you all see this 3 party war being added to the game anytime soon. Sorry but doubtful, don't get me wrong I think this idea has potential just that its a complete 180 turn around from the direction the game was originally designed. Plus we all know EST has thier own ideas in the works for cabal. I truly believe if the entire Global cabal community meaning all Official servers spook up and said, "We would like to see Nuetrals join NW." Then maybe EST would look into it but short of that happening EST will just shelve the idea...:(

[LSW]

I agree with this idea of NN being able to join war but only being able to kill players. They would gain WEXP, kills and AXP but no war bonus or anything of the sort. This way it can be used to balance out the dominating side in war (or do the opposite effect), and theoretically reduce waiting list for everybody involved.

[jamnotjelly]

Lol that world be fun for fb and fs bm1+aura proc/caps at the same time aod bm3+aura for fs sounds like a good time to jam :p

[xFaLL3NxAng3L]

When did this thread about Nuetrals joining war turn into a discussion about bots...:p :p :p

Look obviously implementing this idea of Nuetrals joining NW will mean a radical patch or upgrade to the game. So knowing this do you all see this 3 party war being added to the game anytime soon. Sorry but doubtful, don't get me wrong I think this idea has potential just that its a complete 180 turn around from the direction the game was originally designed. Plus we all know EST has thier own ideas in the works for cabal. I truly believe if the entire Global cabal community meaning all Official servers spook up and said, "We would like to see Nuetrals join NW." Then maybe EST would look into it but short of that happening EST will just shelve the idea...:(

+1

[Lute]

There's no good reason you SHOULD be able to stay no-nation. If the game had nations from the start and you simply chose a nation when you created the character this discussion would never even need to happen. There shouldn't be a "reward" for going no-nation because there shouldn't be any reason to want to be no-nation. It's a waste of developer time to go into developing content for such a small group of players that aren't even intended to exist in the first place. They developed AT to be more nation vs nation and to promote players nation decision being more important, they didn't go out and make a new map only for no-nation players because that's not the point of no-nations and clearly isn't their goal with the game.

Neutrals are welcome to join war, just join a nation. A more relevant and interesting topic to discuss would be making it more rewarding and creating an incentive to join the "losing" nation. The 1-3 honor per kill is a joke as far as a means to balance the nations.

[Sprite]

There's no good reason you SHOULD be able to stay no-nation. If the game had nations from the start and you simply chose a nation when you created the character this discussion would never even need to happen. There shouldn't be a "reward" for going no-nation because there shouldn't be any reason to want to be no-nation. It's a waste of developer time to go into developing content for such a small group of players that aren't even intended to exist in the first place. They developed AT to be more nation vs nation and to promote players nation decision being more important, they didn't go out and make a new map only for no-nation players because that's not the point of no-nations and clearly isn't their goal with the game.

Neutrals are welcome to join war, just join a nation. A more relevant and interesting topic to discuss would be making it more rewarding and creating an incentive to join the "losing" nation. The 1-3 honor per kill is a joke as far as a means to balance the nations.

>implying being no nation is a reward

who says it's for a small group of players? it's for those who feel comfortable with the more pvp aspect of this game - cause everyone knows the pve in this game is repetitive junk with no surprises.
>narrow minded


brb. lol'ing. your argument is a joke

edit: for the record, using your same logic, everyone would indeed start out with a nation if your "developers" really wanted it like that.

[Lord Kronius]

xDDDDD Let them join war. let them take bases.
have em spawn at center.
allow them to win war under title of bandit or nn or w/em so you wouldnt have to add a story line.
bandits are always easy to throw into scenarios lol.
Allow cabal players switch to NN using black transmuter or just make up some other device.
Also allow the NN's to have a bringer >=D that would be cool.
I'm all for adding more fun things and new aspects to war.
It needs to be more interesting!! Why not have an update for the war arena? it's been forever since they touched it...

[Andrea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ2YNKbGqFc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52cA3f7F7K8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd5UkWHnQhA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGEe_zpddNI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbl9sLqbUDc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQRTn77Crk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNw1ZPzqP9Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqlJl1LfDP4

there's something common among those timeless pieces...what I like about the nationless here too.

[truely false]

Neutrals are welcome to join war, just join a nation. A more relevant and interesting topic to discuss would be making it more rewarding and creating an incentive to join the "losing" nation. The 1-3 honor per kill is a joke as far as a means to balance the nations.

Doesn't take a genius see the point being made here. Now I'm not saying that Xi's vision of a 3 party war is totally wrong because as I stated earier in the post. I have also thought about it plenty of times in the past but we can't just dismiss Lute's point either.

[Sprite]

Doesn't take a genius see the point being made here. Now I'm not saying that Xi's vision of a 3 party war is totally wrong because as I stated earier in the post. I have also thought about it plenty of times in the past but we can't just dismiss Lute's point either.

Look on my campaign thread for nation balances.

On another somewhat related note, why would you want to create an incentive to join a losing nation? The reason why they lose is because people aren't good enough or don't try. Why would someone be rewarded for joining that nation? It's a joke lol.

[truely false]

Look on my campaign thread for nation balances.

On another somewhat related note, why would you want to create an incentive to join a losing nation? The reason why they lose is because people aren't good enough or don't try. Why would someone be rewarded for joining that nation? It's a joke lol.

Sure its a joke when you but it like that out of context but in its entirety Lute's point is well put about Nuetrals. Also no idea is without fault not even this thread's topic about Nuetrals being allowed to NW. With that said if your idea can be refined with more detail I'm sure Xi you can make a great presentation of it at the Global Camp if and when the time allows...;)

One suggestion is first try and see what the other Global communities think as well as to see if they are receptive to Nuetrals joining in on NW. This may help you gauge how to best present the idea to the developers if the opportunity arises.

[Sprite]

XI, don't worry. One day you'll be able to find a reason NOT to be on your computer every day of your life. Just keep searching...I know you're desperate. :)

Pretty sure the average human goes on a computer/ phone at least once a day, but thanks for the thought. :)

[quoisky]

NN= NoobNation!