Resist Rate and PvP

[forumtwizzler]

Introduction

Rate Resist plays a big role in PvP. In Mercury at the highest level of this game, all my friends who play with me are at honor 20. A +5 charm and a glove puts the RR at 15%. On top of that some players are packed with RR bikes and that makes their characters overpowered. My own pet carries an RR of 3 with 3 amps. A RR epic crafted bike with 2 slots RR for high level characters, isn't uncommon.

My own experiences

As a force archer I hold 62% rate and I notice my critical rate stands at 1/5 lances (i.e. 20%) against a character with an RR bike! If I am not 2 lances ahead (say in a freestyle) chances of losing are extremely high.

Why RR is overpowered

a) To stop people from an unusually high rate an honor 20 level gives a 10% resistance.
b) To raise a critical rate above 50% requires a critical rate and max rate slot.

Room for Concern

1. Party members in WAR with an SI has more RR.
2. Magic classes will have RR in their int.
3. EP10 RR slot has been raised to 5% from 4.

A probable solution

Perhaps the cap for MAX RATE should be raised to 55. Each max rate slot in gears should be raised to 5/4% from 3/2. This way it gives players the option to choose how much defense / base offense / rate / rate resist instead of only one type of build *(RR) to be the single most important factor while fighting an opponent.

Since Cabal HQ can setup all different criteria, a good idea would be to test 2 honor 20 characters... one with a full RR bike and one with a full damage bike.

Unrelated side note

On a side note while PvPing opponent in freestyle using the "Z" key to re-target opponent will make PvP more consistent. This feature is already available in PK, Nation War and Guild War.

[whitetrash]

So what your saying the people that work there ass off for honor and spend tons on scrolls and bike craft should be nerfed .......
Oh yea that's right you can't buy hr with your cc

[forumtwizzler]

So what your saying the people that work there ass off for honor and spend tons on scrolls and bike craft should be nerfed .......

* their, read carefully, * THINK, then start typing before flying off to your opinions.

Opposite for effort, here is why

1. Honor 10 and Honor 20 will still hold a difference of 10 RR, while it will be easier for players to get close to 65 - 70 % rate mark. It means people who were lazy and geared themselves overnight will lose a lot more.

Here, EFFORT is given a bigger reward over gears as Cap for Max rate as it is more easily accessible. Someone with a low RR will be beaten to shreds.

2. If you want to optimize your damage and "spend" - players can make an effort to make 7/40 weapons and helmet and add max rate to their gloves and suit.

Also, gears come and go. If you are stuck to the concept of "this is my end gear" then you are going to fall behind.
Adding more Max Rate to be available will add more variety and give players more option to how they want to build their characters.

For example with more variations, upgrades and change of stats a character with too much RR may lose too much damage to a player with a lot of amp / cd (such as a fa, bl or fb) or a lot of resist amp (such as fs or wa) which will balance against the range classes with rr (wi, perhaps fa).


Oh yea that's right you can't buy hr with your cc

I am not too far away from hitting honor 20 :)

[whitetrash]

My bad for typing inbetween my job and not checking my grammar lmao love you nazis
Beating them to shreds that's s greAt way to discourage players lol
Lots of ways to your max rate already you just choose to use other things
Not to mention the next update when your stats come into play and the removal of rate in skills it's going to be a whole new ball game unless you have 7/40 tripe stuff your rate is going to be crap

[forumtwizzler]

I am at work too :P and c.o.c.k.y (by default) simply because my e-balls are bigger than most people in Cabal - so don't think of it as being personal.


My bad for typing inbetween my job and not checking my grammar lmao love you nazis
Beating them to shreds that's s greAt way to discourage players lol

Well, it's like you said : working to honor 20 takes about 2600 exchanges. It can't happen overnight. On average, it probably takes about 3 years - unless, you live inside Cabal and think the people in your friend list are more important than your friends irl.

A player who never goes to war to build their honor should be beaten by someone who took his/her time (perhaps years) to do so, that should be accepted. So what's the problem ? :p


Lots of ways to your max rate already you just choose to use other things
Not to mention ... unless you have 7/40 tripe stuff your rate is going to be crap

Already have 3x7/40s ... 2x 14 amp goodies (incluing a 14 amp 3 mcr glove), 1 slot mcr sig. suit and debating between making myself a 7 mcr suit and push my rate to 69% from 62 OR trash my full 3 slotted epic crafted rw3 (perhaps, keep it for pve) and make a new RR bike.

* in PvP at 62 rate vs a player with 28 RR I crit about 1/5 lances, maybe 1/4. It makes my rate 34, average it out and your rate will feel like 20-25%. An average player in Cabal has 150-200% cd (depending on their class).

I feel inclined to go more towards the 70% rate with all this damage (because it can be used in PvE also)

However a 2x2 slot crafted forcium weapons and a 15/24 helmet can be just as interesting. (cabalc.com).


removal of rate in skills

In fact this is a bigger reason to be concerned about RR !

PvP wise only class that will be heavily affected by this are Bladers (and a bigger reason to be concerned for them is because of the RR!), fb got the astral buff, fa - can find a sub their crit shot. in say a freezing lance (more useful because of a range 9) [ I never use it, anyway ] as for AOS, FA can already solo manticore w/o using pots for our epic bm3.

The only concern is

To what I suggested is killing dungeon bosses too easily. But dropping a simple ring (merga/leth) takes about 200 runs on average (400 runs for some and imagine being in a pt to roll for leth ring drop. Aren't you bored of them already ?) And now they are adding another ring in EOD3 *unpopular concept ever * (everybody hates farming for them)

[NiteFalcon]

raising the base MCR is a direct buff to all force classes and indirect nerf to non-force classes. A better solution would be setting a hard resist rate limit.

[Peaches]

Crit Rate limit 50

Resist Crit Rate limit 25

Np. Then we can get items with max resist crit rate up

[forumtwizzler]

raising the base MCR is a direct buff to all force classes and indirect nerf to non-force classes. A better solution would be setting a hard resist rate limit.

WA - uses Deathblow GS
WI - 2x uses Deathblow Orbs
BL - 2x Deathblow blade

A standard hnr 20 non-force classes typically have 40 cd in helmet and another 80 cd from weapons if siggy / topaz / redo or fc crafted 28 cd - 38 cd (2 slot crafted fc)
MCR would benefit all the classes. RR is an overpowering criteria and that is well known. If two equally geared characters, one with a full damage bike and one with a full RR bike were to fight one another in 5 PvPs, the one with RR would likely to win 5/5. Cabal's build order has gone from amp / cd build to defense with rr.

If you cannot use your deathblow gears because you are crit 1/5 times, a large portion of your gears and build remain unused. If the balance is something close to 50%, it's acceptable.
If a player is going 60% + rate and crit at 20%, I think it requires re-thinking on the game design.

I fully support 10 RR from honor.
I fully support 3 RR in glove just as much as I support 3 MCR in glove. Between Force and Non-Force they can decide what they want to go.
I partially support the RR in charms.

The above already gives 15 RR and that is a good balance to counter someone around the 60% rate mark. IF they don't like it they can opt to go for more hp instead of mcr and more amp and base attack with fc weapons instead of 40/7s. This already balances force vs non-force classes.

BIKE : RR is going to raised to 5% per slot plus the pc craft. It's an OP factor. Why ? because it can help a player surpass a 30% RR.
On average high end players carry around 58 rate. You are left with 28% rate, and in practical sense you will feel instead of being able to crit 1/4 times, you are critting 1/5 times.

IF you are only using 1/5 or 20% rate at 58 to take advantage of your Deathblow gears, what's it's use ?

[Peaches]

IF you are only using 1/5 or 20% rate at 58 to take advantage of your Deathblow gears, what's it's use ?

It's better than 0 isn't it?

Spin it backwards; if you are only using 1/5 or 20% of your resist rate bike, what's it's use?

If people work to get their crit rate up, why can't people work to get their resist rate up

[forumtwizzler]

It's better than 0 isn't it?

Spin it backwards; if you are only using 1/5 or 20% of your resist rate bike, what's it's use?

If people work to get their crit rate up, why can't people work to get their resist rate up

1. Helmet, Glove, Suit, 2 weapons are 5 pieces of gear, Bike is just one piece of gear.
2. dd SI in a Nation War, RR from int from the next upgrade , 3 from a pet like I have and you are looking at 0%.

You will never beat a person with an RR bike in say a count of 10, over 70% time at honor 20 unless you have an RR bike yourself.

Also, with your concept you have to switch gears one as a Damage bike for PvE and RR for PVP - how dumb is that ?

[Peaches]

1. Helmet, Glove, Suit, 2 weapons are 5 pieces of gear, Bike is just one piece of gear.
2. dd SI in a Nation War, RR from int from the next upgrade , 3 from a pet like I have and you are looking at 0%.

You will never beat a person with an RR bike in say a count of 10, over 70% time at honor 20 unless you have an RR bike yourself.

Also, with your concept you have to switch gears one as a Damage bike for PvE and RR for PVP - how dumb is that ?

You don't get RR from INT next update.

Yes you do get RR from SI, but you also get Rate from Leg (except FA who gets rate from BM3)

Yes, you will not beat somebody with a RR bike, unless you have one yourself. And you won't beat somebody with HR20 unless you have it yourself; Just like you probably won't beat somebody with +15 forci, unless you have it yourself. And just like you will not beat somebody with extended gear, unless you have it yourself. There is a theme here~

And yes there are a limited number of slots you can have on a bike. Only three. If somebody chooses to use all three of those for only RR instead of damage, that is their choice. And if you feel it is OP, then it is probably a better choice than otherwise (by definition, overpowered = more useful than underpowered). But if you think that the overpowered bikes are useless, then go ahead and don't use one. If you think 3 slots isnt enough, and want to use two seperate bikes, or three seperate bikes, or four seperate bikes, for all different purposes, that is up to you.

Many people use multiple pieces of other gear (Ears/Ammy/Helms/Etc) in different situations; If you choose to do the same with a bike, you can. If you choose to not, you don't have to.

I'll just sit here with my K-red, and not care as much about losing I guess? I usually do well in the aspects of the game I choose to participate in, even with my under-powered/not-resistrated gear.

[forumtwizzler]

You don't get RR from INT next update.

false. as far as i know pt 1 of ep10 is final and this is what I am looking at

Intelligence – INT
INT increases Magic Attack
INT increase the resistance stats
Included these resistance stats: Resist Skill Amp. / Resist Critical Rate / Resist Critical Damage / Resist Stun / Resist Down / Resist Knockback / Resist Unmovable



Yes you do get RR from SI, but you also get Rate from Leg (except FA who gets rate from BM3)

mcr, not rate


And you won't beat somebody with HR20 unless you have it yourself;

yes hnr 20 will most likely to win and that's a good thing. if you read my posts i have said I fully support 10 rr in hnr , 3 from glove and 3 from charms.


If you think 3 slots isnt enough, and want to use two seperate bikes, or three seperate bikes, or four seperate bikes, for all different purposes, that is up to you.

do you know how difficult it is to 3 slot a rw3 at +15? bike scrolls aren't cheap and fail rate is HIGH. Lack of experience


I'll just sit here with my K-red, and not care as much about losing I guess?

Again, lack of experience.

a)A crafted bike with 3 slots overpowers a k-red the same way a eox+8 overpowers a eox+6 in damage. cabalc.com 3 rate isn't useful and most hnr 20 chars have 2 7/40 pieces or crafted fc piece +15ed

b)Bike gives 90 def and movement speed which you will find useful in dungeons and wars.

c) If you are under performing you will be left out of dungeons currently MO* and more importantly arcedium pieces and ring drop in eod3. (harder content according to patch notes)

d) they are increasing slot stats for bike but k-red will not have any change in damage.

e) The forum topic says "RR and PvP" - not PvE.

I know this reply sounds edgy, but it's nothing personal. Don't take it otherwise. Also I would advise you to go to this site http://mrwormy.wordpress.com , go through pt1 of the upgrade till end of page 4. Hope it helps :)

[CandiCoatted]

The only FA I seen bully people with thier hr20 and bike was Han!
Hmm and you be able to say he's outdated....shames us all!


Oh hi kine

[Peaches]

do you know how difficult it is to 3 slot a rw3 at +15? bike scrolls aren't cheap and fail rate is HIGH. Lack of experience



You're arguing against yourself now. If such a bike is so hard to get, then why complain about Resist Rate being OP. If it's so difficult to obtain, shouldn't it be useful?

And re-reading your own first post, you shouldn't be accusing anybody of "lack of experience" lol

It sounds to me like you are just complaining about not critting as often as you'd like to. Have you ever thought: the way things are supposed to be, and the way things you want them to be, are not the same thing?

Spin what you said backwards, and you can just as easily say "60 rate is ridiculous. Even 50 rate is ridiculous. Why would people crit half of the time and let my resist rate go to waste?"

[forumtwizzler]

You're arguing against yourself now. If such a bike is so hard to get, then why complain about Resist Rate being OP. If it's so difficult to obtain, shouldn't it be useful?


my complain isn't about bikes ... it's about having just 1 bike and that's a damage bike, useful both in pvp and pve. if you use RR in bike it's not useful for PvE. And not ... (by the way it's separate not "seperate")



"If you think 3 slots isnt enough, and want to use two seperate bikes, or three seperate bikes, or four seperate bikes, for all different purposes, that is up to you."
I'll just sit here with my K-red,


2 bikes ? 3 bikes ??? -__________-; 4 ???? ... 5 ???
K-Red ... 0 defense ... negligible damage and useless for both PvP and PvE. They are still in use ?



And re-reading your own first post, you shouldn't be accusing anybody of "lack of experience" lol


Just like ...



You don't get RR from INT next update.


okay ??????????? The path notes are out for over 2 months now.



Spin what you said backwards, and you can just as easily say "60 rate is ridiculous


You play fb ... ??? (you know the class with a lot of critical rate and they love (and benefit) using mcr the most) or nipple rug ? (0% crit, no damage and no defense ...).