Cabal's NEW Damage Formula (for real. yes, for this patch.)

[Shimura]

I dedicated about an entire day or two just to figuring out the formula. Hope you guys can make use of it.

There are 6 variables in determining damage. They are: Power (Attack, Amp., Add. Attack), Damage Reduction (Defense), Damage Reduce, Penetration, Minimum Damage, and Add. Damage


Rules for the variables


Power = (Base Attack x Amp.) + Add. Attack
Power ALWAYS gets divided by 4 (or multiplied by .25) when calculating damage for PvP. ALWAYS.
Damage Reduce (not to be confused with Damage Reduction) ALWAYS gets divided by 4 (or multiplied by .25) when calculating damage for PvP. ALWAYS.
Damage Reduce is always (unless there is add. damage. only bladers have to worry about this.) the LAST to be calculated when finding someone's damage and always the FIRST to be calculated when working backwards.
Damage Reduction = Opponents Damage Reduction as a Decimal, ex. For 76% reduction, use the decimal .24
Finding Opponent's Damage Reduction = 4(Damage Done to Player with an Ability + ((Opponent's Damage Reduce / 4) - Your Penetration)) / Your Power
Minimum Damage is not calculated the way I originally thought it might be. For now, let's ignore minimum damage altogether. Any *small* variations in damage output can be blamed on the Minimum Damage stat. For example, If you get the number 46 for Impact Stab but in game you're hitting 50-60, you can say it's because of Min. Dmg, but if you get a 46 and you're hitting 75 or higher, then the calculation is wrong.
Add. Damage is the least used of all the variables and is most commonly found on Blader's Art of Fierceness buff. Add. Damage is ALWAYS divided by 5 in PvP. 3000 Add. Damage from AoF is reduced to 600 in PvP. In nation war it does not get divided (from what I've seen). Add. Damage is always calculated last. I won't talk about this stat more than this since it's only relevant to bladers. This stat gets calculated even after damage reduce.




Final Output: Power(Opponent's Damage Reduction)(.25) - ((Opponent's Damage Reduce / 4) - Your Penetration)



I'll show an example.

Attacker - 2425 Attack - 58% Amp. - 16% Min. Damage - 35 Penetration - Impact Stab - 15% Skill Amp. - +96 Add. Attack - 73% Total Ability Amp.

Vs.

Defender - 1500 Defense - 332 Damage Reduce - 72% Damage Reduction(72% is how much 1500 def gives)


Attacker's Power: (2425 x 1.73) + 96 = 4291.25

4291.25(.28)(.25) - 48 = 252.38




Test it out guys and let me know if you find any inconsistencies. PM me if you have questions or need help with the formula.


Defense Chart:

1000 62%
1100 64%
1200 66%
1300 68%
1400 70%
1500 72%
1600 74%
1700 76%
1800 78%
1900 80%
2000 80.5%
2100 81%
2200 81.5%
2300 82%
2400 82.5%
2500 83%
2600 83.5%
2700 84%

[providen1990]

Do you have a list or a graph of defense and damage reduction?

[Imunique]

Something wrong about min dmg. As far as I can remember, all sw classes has Min. dmg (different betweens each class, 90% with BL for example), which means they DO NOT always deal there full dmg, but vary from 90% to 100% of their maximum dmg. Min. dmg in bracelet only means to reduce the variety of out put dmg, brings dmg output to the maximum potential. FA and wiz don't have min. dmg, which means they always deal 100% of their true dmg. So, adding min. dmg to your formula like that is incorrect.

Furthermore, Add dmg (like AoF of BL for instance) and Add ATK (the add. atk value u see in skills) are different. Add DMG is the last of dmg formula, cannot be reduced, while add ATK is added along with atk, amp and reduced by defend. So, using AoF of BL like an example here is wrong.

About penetration, I agree it's a counter stat of DMG reduce, but not as u expressed. With 100 more penetration, i can crit 1.2k-1.5k more on mobs (250CD) mean while reducing 100 dmg reduce, I only deal 100 more dmg with both crit and non crit hits.

Good job trying to figure out new dmg formula anyway.

[Shimura]

Do you have a list or a graph of defense and damage reduction?

Yeah man. I edited in a list based on what I tested and how I believe it goes.

[Shimura]

Something wrong about min dmg. As far as I can remember, all sw classes has Min. dmg (different betweens each class, 90% with BL for example), which means they DO NOT always deal there full dmg, but vary from 90% to 100% of their maximum dmg. Min. dmg in bracelet only means to reduce the variety of out put dmg, brings dmg output to the maximum potential. FA and wiz don't have min. dmg, which means they always deal 100% of their true dmg. So, adding min. dmg to your formula like that is incorrect.

Furthermore, Add dmg (like AoF of BL for instance) and Add ATK (the add. atk value u see in skills) are different. Add DMG is the last of dmg formula, cannot be reduced, while add ATK is added along with atk, amp and reduced by defend. So, using AoF of BL like an example here is wrong.

About penetration, I agree it's a counter stat of DMG reduce, but not as u expressed. With 100 more penetration, i can crit 1.2k-1.5k more on mobs (250CD) mean while reducing 100 dmg reduce, I only deal 100 more dmg with both crit and non crit hits.

Good job trying to figure out new dmg formula anyway.

Lol... you're a pretty funny guy considering almost everything you said was wrong. First of all let me quote myself:



Test it out guys and let me know if you find any inconsistencies. PM me if you have questions or need help with the formula. The only thing I'm iffy about is the Minimum Damage variable. I could be wrong about it entirely and it could be calculated differently so if the numbers you get start to look weird, try taking out the min.dmg.

Secondly, this formula is for PVP not for PVE. damage reduce does not get divided by 4 in PVE. Your damage on mobs is irrelevant.

Thirdly, what I said about add. damage is 100% correct. I never once confused Add. Damage with Add. Attack that's why they are COLOR CODED. Test it for yourself. In PvP add. Damage is divided by 5. Until you test it and can show the math don't post that crap. You'll confuse the other people who actually want to learn.

[Imunique]

If with 16% min dmg, u x1.16 your power, is it different from amp. ? Furthermore, with that way of calculating dmg, ADD DMG is reduced by def, mean while it's not, I agree it's divided by 5 in pvp, but it's not reduced by defend or whatever. You never mentioned ADD. DMG, just ADD. ATK and take AoF of BL as example, which is mostly wrong.
About penetration, maybe i'm wrong, but it has much more impact than just subtracting value of dmg reduce

[Shimura]

If with 16% min dmg, u x1.16 your power, is it different from amp. ? Furthermore, with that way of calculating dmg, ADD DMG is reduced by def, mean while it's not, I agree it's divided by 5 in pvp, but it's not reduced by defend or whatever. You never mentioned ADD. DMG, just ADD. ATK and take AoF of BL as example, which is mostly wrong.
About penetration, maybe i'm wrong, but it has much more impact than just subtracting value of dmg reduce

Bro... I'm trying to be nice here but you just went full retard. I never mentioned add. Damage? Are you sure? How about you go read my post one more time lmao. Like I said its definitely possible that I'm wrong about min dmg but I'm not wrong about the other .

I clearly state that add dmg is the very last to be calculated. It gets added on to your final output.

Also I'd like to point out you're challenging my formula quite a lot without testing it first don't you think? Give me some numbers and I'll listen to you. So far all you've done is prove that you didn't even read the original post

[Imunique]

oh, you mentioned, sorry but i didn't see it. My bad.

[providen1990]

I have always believe that your power should minus your defense somehow ^^

Let say someone have 2k4 defense, and you are a WI with 2k5 atk, 100amp, use terra lance 85amp (ignore add atk, damage reduce and penetrate for simplify)
Then your attack power is 2500x2.85 = 7125
The damage output is 7125(.15)(.25)(1) = 267.2
I can tell you it is not right the damage output is too low for that stats ^^

You should test it when the opponent defense is high like 2k and up no one have 1k5 def now ^^

Thanks for the work though

[Shimura]

I have always believe that your power should minus your defense somehow ^^

That was how the old formula was. They changed it :(

[providen1990]

Yea I wish they give you a program that calculate damage. I know it is too much but it would be so nice

[Valdoroth]

Would it possible for you to upload it onto a google doc so I can see more of the work/calculations done?

[Shimura]

I have always believe that your power should minus your defense somehow ^^

Let say someone have 2k4 defense, and you are a WI with 2k5 atk, 100amp, use terra lance 85amp (ignore add atk, damage reduce and penetrate for simplify)
Then your attack power is 2500x2.85 = 7125
The damage output is 7125(.15)(.25)(1) = 267.2
I can tell you it is not right the damage output is too low for that stats ^^

You should test it when the opponent defense is high like 2k and up no one have 1k5 def now ^^

Thanks for the work though

I made a mistake on the Defense chart. I changed the values to the correct ones.

So instead it would look like: 7125(.17)(.25) = 302.8

However, damage reduce would take it down to about 250-260 anyways.

This number is correct. Test it for yourself. Until you can prove me wrong with real numbers, don't say I'm wrong. I'll gladly concede and change the formula if you can prove it.



Would it possible for you to upload it onto a google doc so I can see more of the work/calculations done?

Since I'm no longer going to be playing the game, I'd hate to put any more effort in than I already have... but I'll see what I can do.

[AllHopeIsLost]

Minimum Damage is not calculated the way I originally thought it might be. For now, let's ignore minimum damage altogether. Any *small* variations in damage output can be blamed on the Minimum Damage stat.



Min. damage raises the minimum damage you do per skill..

Example: Let's say Impact stab hits anywhere from 1k-1250 randomly because you have low minimum damage, If you increase it, It closes the damage gap to where you're hitting 1100-1250, or 1175-1250, With enough Min. Damage you would hit 1250 consistently.

But you really don't need that much, Like 15-20% to completely close the damage gap.

[Shimura]

Min. damage raises the minimum damage you do per skill..

Example: Let's say Impact stab hits anywhere from 1k-1250 randomly because you have low minimum damage, If you increase it, It closes the damage gap to where you're hitting 1100-1250, or 1175-1250, With enough Min. Damage you would hit 1250 consistently.

But you really don't need that much, Like 15-20% to completely close the damage gap.

Yeah, I'm aware of that now, but since I can't figure out EXACTLY how it's calculated, i decided to ignore that for now. I try to take the highest number out of several attacks so I can avoid working with min. dmg.

[providen1990]

You should use a WI for your calculation WI skills don't oscillate like melee class.
I don't have solid proof but the stats from WI I used was pretty OP when the stats on WA is normal and if the real damage output is 267 then people can quit WI already.

[Shimura]

You should use a WI for your calculation WI skills don't oscillate like melee class.
I don't have solid proof but the stats from WI I used was pretty OP when the stats on WA is normal and if the real damage output is 267 then people can quit WI already.

How about this:

When i come home later, we can meet up in game. My name is Shimura. Then we can get a wizard and test his abilities and I can show you.

[ColdFire]

Unless changed over the years.. Both WI and FA have base of 100% min dmg and were never affected by the fluctuation that melee classes experienced.

[Imunique]

Unless changed over the years.. Both WI and FA have base of 100% min dmg and were never affected by the fluctuation that melee classes experienced.

they still have 100% min.dmg, nothing changed

[Imunique]

you should try to add penetration, b/c my FA 1950 m.atk, 75 amp 190 CD use Fire Lance to hit a wiz whose 2.3k def, I deal about 850 mean while base on your formula, it's only 599 (ignoring dr) That wiz is honor 15, no resist bike or drie eog or resist stuff.
My calculation : 1950 x 2.7 x 18% x 0.25 x2.53 = 599

[Shimura]

you should try to add penetration, b/c my FA 1950 m.atk, 75 amp 190 CD use Fire Lance to hit a wiz whose 2.3k def, I deal about 850 mean while base on your formula, it's only 599 (ignoring dr) That wiz is honor 15, no resist bike or drie eog or resist stuff.
My calculation : 1950 x 2.7 x 18% x 0.25 x2.53 = 599

850? isn't that a crit?

What do you hit when you don't crit? Keep it simple by only using non crits.

I have not tested yet with magic classes so it could require a change in the formula.

[Imunique]

850? isn't that a crit?

What do you hit when you don't crit? Keep it simple by only using non crits.

I have not tested yet with magic classes so it could require a change in the formula.

I'm not so sure but it's around 250 non-crit

[Valdoroth]

I would assume that min dmg starts at 85%, and doesn't go beyond 100%.

[xTheNexiOnex]

I'd like to know how a wiz without a bike and drei get to 2.3k def

[AllHopeIsLost]

I would assume that min dmg starts at 85%, and doesn't go beyond 100%.

It would be nice if it did go past 100%

[Shimura]

I'm not so sure but it's around 250 non-crit

Yes, 250 non-crit is the number I get when using my formula with the stats you provided.

[providen1990]

Something wrong here my scenario:
Opponent 2k4 defense, and WI with 2k5 atk, 100amp, use terra lance 85amp (ignore add atk, damage reduce and penetrate for simplify) hit for like 300 according to your calculation. (this scenario is not real)
the other: FA 1950 m.atk, 75 amp use Fire Lance to hit a wiz whose 2.3k def, and hit for 250. (this one is fact)

500 atk and 35 amp difference (100def short though) should result in way more damage output.
My scenario should hit for like 400-450.

[Shimura]

Something wrong here my scenario:
Opponent 2k4 defense, and WI with 2k5 atk, 100amp, use terra lance 85amp (ignore add atk, damage reduce and penetrate for simplify) hit for like 300 according to your calculation. (this scenario is not real)
the other: FA 1950 m.atk, 75 amp use Fire Lance to hit a wiz whose 2.3k def, and hit for 250. (this one is fact)

500 atk and 35 amp difference (100def short though) should result in way more damage output.
My scenario should hit for like 400-450.

Wrong. Even with those stats, you won't be hitting 400-450 on someone with 2.3k defense. That's just how strong defense is.

the number i got was 325. You will hit about 300-325 non crit. (300 probably after damage reduce)

500 attack and 35% amp making a 50-70 damage increase in pvp is normal. I know it may not seem much to you, but that's how it is. If you still don't think so, find a real player with those stats so you can test it and then tell me if I'm wrong.

[Enso]

I don't... so here is the data:

attacker: 2444 base, 62 amp, 30 add damage, 107 penetration using terra lance (85 amp, 129 add attack)
defender: 1672 defense, 263 damage reduce, 11 resist amp

expected result: (2.36*2444+129)*.26*.25-(263/4-107) = 440 + 5 = 445
actual damage: 354

[Shimura]

I don't... so here is the data:

attacker: 2444 base, 62 amp, 30 add damage, 107 penetration using terra lance (85 amp, 129 add attack)
defender: 1672 defense, 263 damage reduce, 11 resist amp

expected result: (2.36*2444+129)*.26*.25-(263/4-107) = 440 + 5 = 445
actual damage: 354

First of all thank you for testing it.

Second, from this data we can conclude 2 things:

1. Penetration does not give extra damage if your penetration is higher than their damage reduce. In your case, your penetration was 107 while his damage reduce was only 65.75. We'll assume that the extra 41.25 penetration you have more than his damage reduce has no effect and just brings his damage reduce to zero.

2. 1600 defense must be mitigating more than what i predicted it would. When I did the calculation, I got about 400 damage after adding your add. damage in. That is too far off. The only way this can make sense is if 1600 is mitigating 76 or 78% instead of 74% like I predicted.

If you assume his defense is mitigating 78% which would use the decimal .22, then the number we reach is EXACTLY 354. Well, 354.32.

2444 * 2.36 + 129 = 5896.84

5896.84 * .22 * .25 = 324.32

324.32 + 30 (add. damage) = 354.32

This just means I need to go back and re-test the defense chart.

[xFear]

Im not trying to change the subject of this thread or anything but; cant you guys just play the damn game?...im sure by the time u guys figure things out there will be another update and puff start all over again...

[Enso]

Im not trying to change the subject of this thread or anything but; cant you guys just play the damn game?...im sure by the time u guys figure things out there will be another update and puff start all over again...

Part of the game is how it works. Being of the software engineer persuasion, I am interested in that. Reverse engineering is really fun for me, it also helps with character building. If you can calculate exactly what stat improvements give you the most benefit, you can allocate your alz in a more efficient manner. This ain't candy crush.

Some people want to "just play the game", others want to be the best they can be and know as much as they can about the game. Just personal preference.

[Dearr]

I don't... so here is the data:

attacker: 2444 base, 62 amp, 30 add damage, 107 penetration using terra lance (85 amp, 129 add attack)
defender: 1672 defense, 263 damage reduce, 11 resist amp

expected result: (2.36*2444+129)*.26*.25-(263/4-107) = 440 + 5 = 445
actual damage: 354

First of all thank you for testing it.

Second, from this data we can conclude 2 things:

1. Penetration does not give extra damage if your penetration is higher than their damage reduce. In your case, your penetration was 107 while his damage reduce was only 65.75. We'll assume that the extra 41.25 penetration you have more than his damage reduce has no effect and just brings his damage reduce to zero.

2. 1600 defense must be mitigating more than what i predicted it would. When I did the calculation, I got about 400 damage after adding your add. damage in. That is too far off. The only way this can make sense is if 1600 is mitigating 76 or 78% instead of 74% like I predicted.

If you assume his defense is mitigating 78% which would use the decimal .22, then the number we reach is EXACTLY 354. Well, 354.32.

2444 * 2.36 + 129 = 5896.84

5896.84 * .22 * .25 = 324.32

324.32 + 30 (add. damage) = 354.32

This just means I need to go back and re-test the defense chart.

Add Damage from items is divided by 4 in pvp. So if he has 30, it's going to hit ~7 more base damage (you can test it by using LID title in pvp/pk)
It doesn't make sense Penetration doesn't make an effect in damage when it's higher than Oponent's Damage Reduction. Stop to think just a bit: If Damage Reduction is divided by 4, your penetration will always be higher than oponent's damage reduction, so it'll never make any difference...

I would say that Opnt's. Damage Reduction is calculated with Penetration and then, the result is divided by 4. So, in Enso's damage would be (263-107)/4 = 39

Then the whole formula should work like:
{[(Amp * Atk + Skill Add. Dmg) * Op.Defense%] /4} - [(263-107)/4] + (Add. Dmg/4)
{[(2.36*2444+129)*.26] / 4} - [(263-107)/4] + 7
[(5896,84 * 0,26) / 4] - 39 + 7
383,24 - 39 + 7
351,24

The result is close to the real damage in game... I haven't tested with my char yet, I'll do it later then I post the results '-'

[CandiCoatted]

Im not trying to change the subject of this thread or anything but; cant you guys just play the damn game?...im sure by the time u guys figure things out there will be another update and puff start all over again...

Word

[providen1990]

The defense chart is a big problem though it is the main factor here XD

[Shimura]

Part of the game is how it works. Being of the software engineer persuasion, I am interested in that. Reverse engineering is really fun for me, it also helps with character building. If you can calculate exactly what stat improvements give you the most benefit, you can allocate your alz in a more efficient manner. This ain't candy crush.

Some people want to "just play the game", others want to be the best they can be and know as much as they can about the game. Just personal preference.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Respect. Smart people like you shouldn't waste time on cabal.


Add Damage from items is divided by 4 in pvp. So if he has 30, it's going to hit ~7 more base damage (you can test it by using LID title in pvp/pk)
It doesn't make sense Penetration doesn't make an effect in damage when it's higher than Oponent's Damage Reduction. Stop to think just a bit: If Damage Reduction is divided by 4, your penetration will always be higher than oponent's damage reduction, so it'll never make any difference...

I would say that Opnt's. Damage Reduction is calculated with Penetration and then, the result is divided by 4. So, in Enso's damage would be (263-107)/4 = 39

Then the whole formula should work like:
{[(Amp * Atk + Skill Add. Dmg) * Op.Defense%] /4} - [(263-107)/4] + (Add. Dmg/4)
{[(2.36*2444+129)*.26] / 4} - [(263-107)/4] + 7
[(5896,84 * 0,26) / 4] - 39 + 7
383,24 - 39 + 7
351,24

The result is close to the real damage in game... I haven't tested with my char yet, I'll do it later then I post the results '-'

Actually, Add. Damage is divided by 5 in pvp, not 4. I even said it in my original post yet I forgot when I was doing the calculation. Dont know why lol.

And yes.. it DOES make sense for penetration to have no effect if the opponent's damage reduce is already zero. If penetration penetrates damage reduce, what is it going to penetrate when there is no damage reduce to penetrate?

However, I do like your way of calculating damage reduce. Instead of dividing damage reduce by 4 and then subtracting your penetration from it, you subtract first then divide. It definitely works in this *particular* case, but it needs to work in ALL cases to be correct. Let's test it some more so we can figure out which is correct. Honestly I hope your version is correct because when I tried to change the defense chart, I really couldn't figure out the correct defense increments.

[providen1990]

if you want to calculate the def chart you gonna need to test for every 100 def increments they can be weird.

[Dearr]

Actually, Add. Damage is divided by 5 in pvp, not 4. I even said it in my original post yet I forgot when I was doing the calculation. Dont know why lol.


You're right, in fact, I typed /5 but I changed while I was reading my old calculator XD

I also tested the formula with my char stats and the result was totally different... It was 466 in game and it showed 252 in the formula xD

[Shimura]

You're right, in fact, I typed /5 but I changed while I was reading my old calculator XD

I also tested the formula with my char stats and the result was totally different... It was 466 in game and it showed 252 in the formula xD

Lol then something is wrong. You hit someone with 1600 defense?

As long as everything was correct and no variables changed, then that means the formula is wrong or the defense chart is wrong.

I've never had my formula fail me when calculating my damage or my friends' damage.

[geegeegee]

Lol then something is wrong. You hit someone with 1600 defense?

As long as everything was correct and no variables changed, then that means the formula is wrong or the defense chart is wrong.

I've never had my formula fail me when calculating my damage or my friends' damage.

I believe the formula only accurate for sword class. When try to test with magic class, final output mostly off by 100~200 damage.

[Shimura]

I believe the formula only accurate for sword class. When try to test with magic class, final output mostly off by 100~200 damage.

I 100% agree with you. I thought about this last night before going to bed so I didn't post about it. I never tested with a magic class, only sword classes. In the dev interview for this patch, the devs mentioned that different battle styles would have different formulas and calculations.

This could mean there is a difference in calculation between sword and magic. Or possibly even force and non-force. Only testing will tell.