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Thread: Warrior, the Dying PVP Class?

  1. #1

    Warrior, the Dying PVP Class?

    Hello, everyone.

    I feel like I need to vent somewhere. Maybe it's justified, maybe it's not. Anyways, here I go.

    I went on a long long hiatus several times throughout the game and I have been catching up to all the updates that have come to pass. Am I the only one that sees the continual, indirect nerf of the classic MMORPG class?

    No question it is THE worst BM3 out of all the classes - it is hilariously slow and awkward, and there's almost no merit in ever using it - both solo and even in group in part to the overhaul of the attack/defense rate stats. BM2 gives you +1500 attack rate, and BM3 gives you none. BM2 has more leech capability, which means higher survival rate. I have over 5K attack rate and my opinion on this matter hasn't changed. In comparison to other class, it has the worst cast time, low damage due to slow speed A/B attacks and terribad synergies, and obviously no range. Every other class will be casting their second A/B attack by the time you finish casting your first A/B attack - so not only you want us to chase around FA/WI as they easy mode kite the hell out of you, hit harder than you, hits faster than you, and build up their fatal attacks faster than you, but you also want us to attack at a dreadful speed? How does that make sense? It should be that the ranged class gets the advantage of range, but has handicap in slow casting, while melee have advantage of quick casting and handicap of no range. Lastly, with the addition of the fourth synergy effect, WA now has the worst synergy combination for damage output. I know they plan to give us shorter casting time for A/B attacks, but that won't even happen until Episode 11. Why wait that long?

    And people say, "Oh well... Warriors have a nice BM2 so it's OK." WI BM2 easily outdps it especially now and has a bigger AOE, and BL BM2 is the best DPS single target BM2 in the game. I may have been OK with it still, until they changed all the world map bosses so that their attack speed is no longer slowed down by down effect like it used to be. It is a Jack of All Trades, Master of None - not just for the BM3, but for everything a WA is. How about we reverse the conversation and look at the entire package... Well, let's take a look at BM1: FB has God mode, BL has super CDI/CRI, FS can damage you back, FA can hit two targets.... WA has nothing...

    Just breaking down the synergy, let's see what each class gets when they activate all of their pure damage synergies:
    -Warrior: +20% cdi, +5% cri, +5 max crit, +10% amp
    -Blader: +70% cdi, +500 add dmg, +5% amp, +5% cri, +5% max crit
    -Wizard: +10% amp, +50% cdi, -25% resist cdi, +5% cri, +5 max crit
    -Force Archer: +10% amp, +50% cdi, +5% cri, +5% max crit
    -Force Shielder: +7% cri, +7% max crit, +25% cdi,
    -Force Blader: +10% amp, +15% rate, +15% max rate, +5% attack (but -10%cdi)

    Look Force Bladers! Holy hell, +15% additional critical rate - for Force Bladers with ~60% rate using *Hard Luck* (-10% resist critical rate), they will have upto 85% chance of critical rate with just one application of *Increase Critical* - if they decide to double up *Increase Critical*, they will have 92% chance to critical someone. OP much? Really? We gave a combination like this to a class with most innate critical rate and among the highest innate critical damage class?

    BLs in exchange for 5% amp get 50% more cdi and +500 add.dmg in comparison to WA.

    Wizards essentially get 55% more cdi than WA, while still being able to spam their A/B faster and from a long range.

    Force Archers get 30% more cdi, while their A/B skill literally hits almost everyone in their view. Crazy CRAZY AOE and crazy damage. Sounds fair.

    Only one that's remotely close to having crap synergy is FS, but they actually have a reasonable A/B attack time.

    I know everyone must've been very excited about Art of Shout, but really ask yourself... Was it such a huge boost or something that has impacted your gameplay dramatically? For me, it ended up very underwhelming (but hey, at least something is better than nothing). And then we get to Apocalypse Decision. Wow, what is this? Could any less thought have been put for this skill? Honestly, I don't even care about the skill animation (well, I actually do), but what the hell is this? Slow casting time by a whole 0.2 seconds? Damage statistic is really pretty much the lowest tier... And does anyone honestly even notice the extra AOE? From experience, I think Sword Quake has much better AOE than this thing. And that's not really even the whole picture - look at what the new addition of this skill does for other classes. FB/BL can pretty much opt to never use their low DPS GMaster skills in their pvp combo because they have an orange skill effect in their Completer skills Assassinate and Lightning Slash that can be spammed since they all have LVL 9 cool down time and hit equal to or harder than their GMaster skills. Warriors, sorry - Whirlwind is your GMaster skill and it IS the hardest skill in your arsenal. At this point for my PVP combo, I'm at the point where I am trying to figure out which skill to throw away and not use - Sword Quake or Apocalypse Decision. For WI, they get to remove a cannon skill out of their BM2 bar, and that alone boosts up their BM2 DPS a lot (not to mention their big skills can be cast at a faster rate because they all have lvl 9 cool down time). FS now has another pretty hard hitting critting skills, albeit not at the Shield Grenade level, before having to use their slow, but hard hitting Shield Splinter.

    This is a big hidden nerf no one seems to realize. Before all these slew of updates, it was absolutely paramount that everyone use DPS skills a la Force Kick, Impact Stab, Rising Shot, Charge, Vital Interference, Double Slash, Force Assault, etc etc because 1. They had high DPS, 2. They were filler skills while your big skills cool downed. Warriors reaped the most benefit out of the DPS skills before because DPS skills with the old damage calculation system were more effective with higher base attack/amp. Now that all skills have cool down time of level 9, the big skills can be cast back to back literally - oh by the way, WA's big attack skills since GMaster has been utterly crap, the weakest out of all the sword classes. Also, the new damage calculation is difficult to crack, but from what I've tested with Titainum+11 80% CDI vs. Sigmetal+15 60% CDI, the base attack difference between the two weapons for DPS skills, big skills, and DMG in BM2/3 wasn't even that big anymore when you average out the crits and the non-crits. After testing the statistics out, I can't help but theorize that the new damage calculation system favors the force classes that have innately higher CDI/CRI. So yeah, we have this monstrous base stats in our HP, Attack, and Defense, but base attack and defense have seemingly become a useless statistics once you reach a certain "wall", and CDI in pure amount affects the damage output the most.

    First, Instant Immunity is only 18 seconds. I got it, in exchange for shorter duration, we can use it more often. No thank you, Maybe it's a preferential thing, but I'd rather have longer duration with longer cool down time than what we currently have. After 18 seconds of immunity, I'm just bouncing up and down after being knocked down for the next 60-70 seconds in BM2/BM3 as I face: A. Giant wave of opposing nation and hopefully tanking them, or B. Trying to chase down ranged classes who can get to their fatal attacks faster than you as they kite the hell out of you. Second, what's the point in even having Bear's Vitality for such short duration? You tank like one extra hit, and then it runs out.... it's pretty much ineffective. Third, Cat's Recovery needs to be extended to complement Bloody Spirit. It just doesn't make sense that right now the duration complements Bear's Vitality. Bloody Spirit is awesome, but unless Cat's Recovery's duration matches Bloody Spirit's and HP Restore gets booted up to 200-300 per second, or Bloody Spirit gets even shorter defense penalty, we will never be able to use Bloody Spirit and hold it the way BL, WI, FA, and FS can.

    Cat's Recovery is a crap skill, by the way. +120hp every 2 seconds for 36 seconds only equates to +2160. This is a useless Recover Per Second rate. How about 240 per every 2 seconds for 18 seconds at the least? How the hell does +120 hp every 2 seconds help when you're getting slammed by Leth Tyrant/Drei while in Bloody Spirit? If you're pvping someone, that's pretty much saying the person is hitting you for 60 less while you have Cat's Recovery - actually a little less when they're using DPS skills. Real game changer.

    Warriors have the lowest penetration and accuracy out of all the classes. This is big because Penetration stat will boost your attack power the most out of any statistics in the game. You think +360 attack is what makes you hit so hard in Bloody Spirit? Nope. It's Penetration and Critical Damage statistics.

    Accuracy is by far more impacting than attack rate when it comes to hits vs misses. And WAs have the lowest attack rate. You will miss miss miss, and in nation war, I cant count the number of times I've given someone a chase with one hit left to kill, only for them to get miss/block. Terrible.

    On the flip side, we have the most Damage Deduction, but we all know Cabal is "Kill before you get killed", so it begs the question on which you'd rather have sometimes.

    Bladers have Evasion. Force Shielders have Art of Defense/Shadow Shield. Force Bladers have Elemental Enchant. Force Archers have unroot and Quick Move. Wizards have Astral Shield. Some better than others. All better than Warrior's.

    Not sure if it's due to the new damage calculation, but BM2 just isn't what it used to be, both in damage and in AOE. I remember when Nation War first came out I would pop BM2, Instant Immunity, Cat's Recovery, and Bear's Vitality and I would AOE the hell out of everyone 360 around me, and people two blocks in front of me. Leech enough HP out of each swing to sit there comfortably. Now days, I will be lucky if I AOE 2 people, let alone a crowd unless they are literally on top of each other.

    That's my chief complaints so far about the class. I also read on the game developers interviews that Warriors are meant to be an AOE class that is not really suited for 1VS1. I think this is BS - just because you gave WA class 1 extra AOE range on Apocalypse Decision which is nearly unnoticeable doesn't jusfitfy that WA should in mission battles or whatever the case maybe. It is not an over-exaggeration that EVERY class in this game is an AOE class, that is just a stupid generalization.

    I know I'm now going to get a lot of "get over it", which I really have no say so on. And I know I'm going to get "Learn to play the class, no class is best class," but that is the most clutch argument/most flawed argument ever and I am speaking under a controlled environment where all classes have same equips and same level of skills. I am sure I will also get, "if you don't like it change to a new class," to which I say no, I always play this archetype class in all MMORPG and I don't have the willpower to reroll to another character.

    In the end, you can be the best WA in the entire server, but you are still the worst PVP class in comparison to others.
    Last edited by EmpyreanLord; 01-29-2014 at 10:57 PM.

  2. #2
    Osmium Tenrai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Cali, USA

    On some degree I concur. The none force classes have it rough for ever more in this update. With the high amount of resist critical rate, the Force Blader live's up to its means of being the successor of the force. The balance I truly believe will come from the last battle style only few who are anticipating such as myself to be unveiled fully. Till then the population of none force classes will endure great heights of challenges especially those who are on the brink of rerolling into a force user battle style. To those who are on that road truly I tell you, be patient and continue your work.
    IGN: Angel

  3. #3
    SIGMetal NiteFalcon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    New Jersey
    yea there really is no arguing against it. warrior will remain the most gimp class atm so long as the meta game revolves around BM3. there are even more flaws that you havent mentioned but i'm not gonna bother going into them. we'll wait and see what the buffs in spring 2014 bring but I doubt it will be enough.

  4. #4
    Shadow Titanium Tonberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    first of all, i love the WA class - ever since i started playing MMO in 2002, i have always played a big sword class. cabal online, no difference. once i finished off my WA, i started playing other classes more in-depth and i agree with most of the points made on this thread, if not all. the damage output of a warrior is simply too low at the moment and i too also feel that force classes have such a big advantage in both versatility and end-game damage, both pvp and pve.

    for example, i have a force blader (and a FS alt) alt that is pretty decently geared, but not as well as my WA - the WA is lvl 190, the FB is 169. surprised to find out my force blader can solo a dungeon about 3-5 minutes faster on average. in TG, it is so much easier to rush in as a force blader in aura+bm1 or in bm3.

    it is what it is, MMORPG doing their flavor of the month thing. sometimes you get lucky in the draw, sometimes you dont.

    but if i could suggest to the development team on how to level out the playing field for WA, it would be:
    1. speed up a/b attack to 1.2s and either maintain the pierce effect in the a/b attack, or improve our synergies
    2. give WA another orange text skill, or +xx% cdi in one of our attacks; the effects we've been getting in our skills (down effect, -50 def, DOT) are pretty dismal.
    3. add resist cdi back on panic cry
    4. take out fade to cursor because it is too easy for fa/wi to kite in bm2/3
    5. make instant immunity work like fa's buff to remove root, as well as retain its current effect

    and i dont know why we got another party buff. they should've given it to BL or something so they have more to contribute to a group besides their other CDI buff or FS so they have an offensive party buff. or maybe it is the development team's way of saying "hey, WA is kinda crappy right now for a dungeon run, but at least they can give you good buffs in a dungeon... so bring them along."
    Last edited by Tonberry; 09-24-2013 at 08:53 PM.

  5. #5
    WA got a lot of advantages since Cabal was open beta, now it's just 1-2 episodes getting some disadvantages compared to Force classes and u cry about it? Think about FA and FS before bm3 came out....

  6. #6
    Shadow Titanium Tonberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    its more of an observation than a complaint. after all, it took est couple years before they figured out root was too OP and single target execration and field of execration should share CD so im sure we will balance it out one day

    although what i remember from OB was different - WI/FA ruled pvp unless it was 1-2-3 pvp with short buffs because cannons/lances dps was too much back then when we only had completer level attack skills.

  7. #7
    Trainee BrutosGu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    VÍnus - C13
    Since i started play Cabal, choose Warrior. Is a perfect class, def, atc, life, etc... But, of course, everybody with your class.

  8. #8
    WA are the most op class w.t.f
    they are able to 2shot almost any class outiside of war, not 2 mention there def is so much.
    For dungeons i think all classes except bl on solo dungeons.
    only thing i agree on this is number 5, it would be nice wa to remove root with there immunity.
    -wa for 2years
    Last edited by Troll123; 09-26-2013 at 07:16 AM.

  9. #9
    people whose hearts have not been synced with that of a Warrior class will never understand the struggle, no arguing against your post sir

  10. #10
    Titanium Seireitei4eva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Great post. I feel your pain. +1

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